100 Replies to “Laws Broken: Avengers – Sokovia Accords Illegal? (One Marvelous Scene x LegalEagle)

  1. Wow, evidently Korematsu was overturned last year in Trump v. Hawaii. Many thanks to you Legal Eagles who pointed that out. I learned something!

  2. One thing that immediately comes to mind when applying real world sensibilities to the MCU; the state of California allowing Tony Stark to possess a wide variety of super weapons when you can't even own nunchaku there (Penal Code Section 22010).

  3. In the opposite direction. I would really like a video about all the laws broken by team cap in the MCU, because I'm sure destruction of public property, the lives lost as collateral damage, assault of law officers, trying to steal a plane from the airport, almost killing Tony in Siberia, unlawfully entering other countries (I'm pretty sure none of them passed the migration office honestly, what are passports for) and all the things that were put as reasons for the Accords do have some validity.

    So if we were to charge them legally what would be the charges and just how screwed would they be? (And I also think about Steve lying in his register forms for enlistment does not seem legal) and would diplomatic immunity cover Black Panther for his highly dangerous high speed car chase of Ulysses Klausse as well as trying to kill Bucky? and I'm sure lots of destroyed property as well. Seems interesting.

    By the way, Clint pretty much entered without permission into the compound to recruit Wanda, and she did attack Vision, whether that qualifies as attacking a person or Tony's property. In summary I'm sure Team Cap did break a lot of laws, and wouldn't there be obstruction of justice in the case of Howard and Maria Stark's assassination, I didn't see Steve telling the police about it.

    And what of the Info Dump in the Winter Soldier? , no matter if S.H.I.E.L.D. was Hydra infected or not, Steve and Natasha just revealed a lot of classified government information to the world. Think of all the undercover agents killed when their covers were blown. Seriously where is the list of crimes of these guys?! (Also, what would a reasonable option to the Accords look like?)

  4. Habeous Corpous sounds like a bad ass Anti-Hero organization that would work against the Sokovia Accords.

  5. A few notes:

    Nobody KNEW Ultron came from Stark except people present in the party. The only person that could have ratted them out was the SHIELD agent Maria Hill, who probably didnt. Nobody public knew anything about Ultron AT ALL, except that he tried to recreate the dinosaur extinction, but the Avengers stopped him halfway. Why was SO MUCH BLAME put on the Avengers that 100+ countries decided "Yeah superhumans dont deserve human rights?"

    Peter Parker, a superhuman, is a minor and cannot be legally bound by his signature.

    War Machine stole Stark's intellectual property

    Falcon stole (or took without asking) what is essentially black-ops gear from the US military, since it's the same equipment he wore in the Falcon unit. He was already a criminal.

    Hawkeye and Black Widow have NO powers at all except for high level combat training. Anyone can do that. Can they even be legally bound by the terms if they dont for the given descriptions?

  6. Where is the suspension of disbelief? Some things have to be taken for granted to operate within the framework of the world the writers have created.

  7. Actually, the best scene in the MCU is the "Avengers" money shot during the Battle of New York because facts.

    If no Avengers Money Shot then no Avengers franchise culmination then no Avengers sequels leading up to Infinity and Endgame thus no complete Disney media empire dominance and we'd be here talking about how great the Last Jedi was instead… that's why we don't mess with the timeline, people!!

  8. And that's not even getting into all the human rights violations that underwater-Guantanamo's cells were examples of, not least among them the permanent lighting, which I believe is classified as a form of torture! I mean, if you're going to violate your citizen's rights so thoroughly on just your own national rights, why not go whole hog and violate as many UN-ratified human rights at once as you can!

  9. Objection: Ultron was not intentionally created by Tony Stark. Ultron was essentially a living computer virus brought about by one of the infinity stones- and Vision was also a product of that.

    Question: Would a spontaneously arising conscious being be the chattel of the person who owned the medium that being grew out of? If I own a loaf of bread and let it go moldy, then the next day a sentient mold person climbs out of the bag, do I own them because they came from the bread that I owned?

  10. Small completely unrelated correction. While the US did not sign the Versailles treaty congress formally ended hostilities with German and Austria Hungary in 1921.

  11. You said that US law, there is a requirement for laws to be explicit. I find this very important. Doesn't the UK have a bunch of freedom of speech related laws that are so vague that they can be used in many different ways because it's whatever the government deems as "grossly offensive"? This doesn't seem like a thing that should exist. Like the twitter joke trial. Do a video on the Twitter Joke Trial.

  12. Love the Ken Burn Civil War themed opening. Great video.
    You can too go around getting in fights in the United States. MMA, boxing, and Hockey are some examples. In the Incredible Hulk, General 'Thunderbolt' Ross violated posse comitatus. It also ended up with a comatose posse.
    The best scene in the MCU is Stark recruiting Spider-Man. Stark was for being under control of the Sokovia Accords. Cap said he see someone needs help and he can't help but do something. Yest Stark was recruiting Peter because he could restrain people. Peter actually served a purpose unlike Barry (the Flash) who served no purpose in the Justice League. Barry had no friends and he needed friends. Stark contrast to the MCU when Tony asked Peter what his MO was, what gets him out of bed in the morning, why he does what he does. One of the most briliant lines I have seen, read or spoke. "Because Mr. Stark. When you can do the things that I can, but you don’t, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you." Isn't that a great reason and isn't it also Ironic. Peter uses Cap's reason and argument with Tony yet he is to side with Tony. Talk about Irony Man.

  13. Where do thor, Loki, vision and even Wanda stand then. Wanda is not a us citizen, vision is ai, and thor and Loki aren't even of earth so basic human rights dont apply to them from a legal stand point

  14. i feel it important to remind everyone that the war machine suit and falcon glider wings were actually milspec technology.

  15. My problem is, what's an enhanced individual? Guys like Tony Stark, Scott Lang, Sam Wilson etc are not enhanced. There is nothing inherently different about them. All they are doing is using a weapon. Now, whether or not those weapons should be regulated is another discussion. But all the compelled speech, medical invasiveness and internment shouldn't apply to a normal human.

  16. I always figured the Accords were a stand in for real life polices like the Patriot Act and gun control, and all the problems with them.

  17. Objection: S.H.I.E.L.D. is US government run organization commanded by an active duty Colonel in the United States Armed Forces (not sure if he's Army, Air Force, or Marines).

    Objection: the US declaration of war against Germany in WWI was ended by the Treaty of Berlin 1921

    Objection: while the Heller decision recognized the individual right to own firearms, other SCOTUS upheld legislation has restricted the level of weapons that can be owned. Except under limited circumstance, a private citizen cannot own automatic weapons and large ordnance weapons like artillery.

    Lastly, what case law could allow the US government to seize the intellectual property of the Iron Man suit under Eminent Domain? Conversely, could Stark Industries sue the government for the return of the War Machine suit?

  18. If you define Vision as an animate object owned by Stark as chadle, is Stark granted ownership of Vision's potential offspring?

  19. The best scene so far was Steve meets Sam (And Nat) at the beginning of Captain America, Civil War, because it established a character, a relationship, a setting, and the predicament, all in one entertaining dialog. There was almost no action, but nobody in the theater was like "Come on!" and beat up Steve in the alley later (Until Bucky showed up…) It was just so well written, engrossing, and entertaining.

  20. Pretty sure I clicked the subscribe button and it went from 699k to 700k. So I'm pretty sure I'm your 700k subscriber. Does this mean I get a snazzy suit? Please say yes.

  21. Don't act like government and US laws wouldn't change if the Avengers and enhanced being actually existed. Do you honestly think anyone would give a damn about government laws and what lawyers would object to if super heroes existed? Good luck convicting a super hero. No jail or prison would hold them and no amount of law enforcement could restrain them let alone get them to court. To a super hero, the little rat race game of the legal system, is nothing more than a joke.

  22. Objection? only for Thor. Since he is a literal god and even his alter ego isn't legal citizen of any country on earth and/or this dimension. There is no way any doctrine or statute that exists could apply to him. Everything he does is an extrema circumstance (all the literal acts of god laws don't specify whether god/a god is actually involved). He doesn't even classify as enhanced since he has technically had his powers for an incalculably long time in Asgard before America, perhaps even precludes civilization itself, he would grandfathered safely regardless according to the good ol constitution. An individual can't be charged for a crime they committed before it was illegal, only after the law is officially passed and ratified and they are proven to have done it again beyond a reasonable doubt AFTERWARDS. Also…can one punish a non human regardless of inherent/apparent sentience, cognizanace or self awareness? I feel the law is completely incapable of raising any charges whatsoever ever against Thor- He isn't human, isn't a citizen or earth in any manner and is no more imprisonable than a tornado, freezing rainstorm or volcanic eruption. Since Thor is a god every action he takes is therefore arguably an act of god/ a god and he gets to do whatever he wants until the laws could catch up and change completely. He would make insurance claims very difficult….

  23. Objection! The War Machine suit is US Air Force property and Col. Rhodes operates it as a member of the US military. He doesn't privately own the suit.

  24. Objection: The US is not in world war 2 anymore. The "2+4-Treaty", in which the US participated, acts as a peace treaty. You're going to be quote mined hard by the "Reich Citizens' Movement"-conspiracy nut jobs. 😀

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_the_Final_Settlement_with_Respect_to_Germany
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsb%C3%BCrgerbewegung

  25. Objection on #9: Butler v. Perry says that the Thirteenth Amendment does not apply to "enforcement of those duties that individuals owe the government, “such as services in the army, militia, on the jury, etc. ”" I don't think that there's an actual constitutional requirement to have a systematic method of conscription and to not selectively conscript individuals with special abilities. Could be wrong of course.

  26. Why would it have been an international accord when, at this point in the MCU, all "Enhanced individuals" were considered US Citizens?
    And Thor.

    Where the hell does Thor fit into this? Wouldn't he technically be countable as a diplomat from another realm? A similar question for Vision and it's own rights as a being.

    Anyway. If all acting parties are considered US Citizens, wouldn't they answer simply to US law? or is it the fact that it's an entrance and near destruction of a partial piece of a foreign power that makes this an international matter?

    Damn it….Now I want Dr.Doom in MCU just because of the respect and importance I've seen in recent animated series involving him, that he has for his country of Latveria.

  27. Actually No. First off Vision was created by Ultron. Ultron was created by Hank Pym aka Antman with help from Iron man. Ultron's AI was created by Antman. Ultron wound considered to be Antman's Son and Vision as Ultron's Son. The MCU got it all wrong. If Anything, Vison in the MCU would be Ultron's Vision reborn, and

  28. Objection: The Avengers in the MCU are a government sponsored superhero team, Captain America and his other superhero pals would be more akin to police officers or soldiers.

  29. The Ultron robots that the Avengers fought were defective due to an unknown design flaw in their software. Wouldn't that free Tony from liability for any damages or deaths caused by Ultron?

  30. The one thing that surprised me here is that the detaining those “deemed a threat” was a problem. That language was lifted from laws around disability and neuroatypicality. Where people deemed to have a menal illness that makes them “a threat to themself or others” are able to be detained regardless if they’ve actually done anything dangerous or criminal. Wouldn’t whatever defenses allow for that also allow for the same treatment of enhanced individuals?

  31. OBJECTION! [Re: approx. 10:15] You claim that Iron Man, War Machine, and Falcon created their suits. This is incorrect in regards to War Machine and Falcon.

    War Machine's suit was only flight-capable and not weaponized until government funding via Hammer Industries added its first armaments. While Mr. Stark may have had a right to claim the government stole his suit, but did not do so before his death, therefore it remains at this time the government's property. In fact, between but not including the events of Iron Man 2 and Avengers: Infinity War, there is no indication that Col. Rhodes used his suit for anything other than government-directed missions. As such, it is de facto property of the United States military, and therefore at the time of the drafting of the Sokovia Accords, Col. Rhodes could have been ordered to turn it over, dismantle it, destroy it, or anything else, legally. Subsequent suits which were not funded by the government would be protected if obtained by legal means.

    Falcon's suit was US military property, stored at the NSA, next to Ft. Meade in Maryland. (OBJECTION to the movie for saying that the NSA building is in Fort Meade. Only by mailing address for simplicity's sake. It's not actually on the property.) Anyway, it was funded and developed by the government, and stolen from there. If I'm not mistaken, CA:Civil War references that his suit is the same one that was stolen, indicating modification rather than a completely new design. In any case, the IP of the design would still be violated.

    In regards to Mr. Stark, from the start: He operated an unregistered supersonic aircraft, and used it to circumvent rule of law, with lethality, in a foreign sovereign state. In the aftermath, he damaged US military property. This could easily have given the US probable cause to seize the assets (even if only as evidence for his trial). See also: International Vigilantism.

  32. THE CIVIL WAR WASN'T ABOUT SLAVERY IT WAS ABOUT STATE'S RIGHaahaahahahahahahahaha Sorry I couldn't get through it without laughing. 🙂

  33. OBJECTION: You forgot the convention on the rights of the child. The US has not ratified that one either. Also, If vision, a sentient sapient being is like a dog then since thor is not a human being either he is also like a dog in american law.

  34. OBJECTION! Sorry, had to say that. But the American War for Independence was fought for the freedom of states, and the Constitution was created in response to the challenges of the Articles of Confederation.

  35. Due to these accords, say if during "Infinity War" the government asked/begged the Avengers to get rid of Thanos and his lackeys, do the Avengers have the right to tell them "no"?

  36. I loved this one! It was very thought provoking. Unfortunately I doubt that the writers of the movie were at all concerned with the actual legalities of the nonsensical Sokovia Accords. The movie writers were trying to mix reality with fantasy, and that does not work well. As you point out, super heroes cannot exist in real life—-they are vigilantes, which is illegal. So bringing something like world wide politics and the law into the superhero word was not a good fit. I doubt that America would ever have ratified such "treaty" as the Sokovia Accords. An international agreement that required American citizens to be registered and monitored? That required those citizens to be imprisoned, without trial, if they violated the Accords? Their lives, and privacy violated, their human and American Civil rights violated? Again, as you pointed out, there are so many violations of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, etc. Any politician that signed such a thing would be committing political suicide. Actually the very idea that every country on Earth could ever agree on anything bigger than a lunch menu is extremely unrealistic. Fantasy and Reality do not mix well, and really need to be kept separate. I really enjoyed this video, it was amazing to hear someone bringing up all of the very real and legal objections to something like the Sokovia Accords.

  37. Objection: The Second Amendment does pertain to an individual's right to keep and bear arms, that much is true but it applies to the arms held in common. What that means is that the AR-15, a popular sporting rifle, is protected as it is common among the people currently. Laser weapons, Iron Man exoskeleton suits, Killdozers and the like do not fall under that protection as no one else owns those. They're not common weapons among Americans. As it stands, you can have a look at the case involving 3D printed gun parts as an example of this. As well, none of us are legally allowed to manufacture our own lower receivers using machine lathes. As well, Stark can't say that his Iron Man armor with repulsor weapons are protected by the Second Amendment unless they're sold and held in common by a significant number of American Citizens…which would make the heads of those Moms Demand types suddenly pop.

  38. lol, legaleagle guy you are correct in that unfortunately there are people in 2019 that don't know that there was AN ACTUAL CIVIL WAR fought so that people wouldn't be forced to do that. (sorry millenials)

  39. Since Tony Starks suits are weaponry he can’t use them. I thought they have to be approved by the NRA or the US government. Much how I can’t just 3D print weapon parts and put them together and use them.

  40. Some other MCU issues that may or may not be fun to see a video about:
    – what's Captain Americas status after being thawed from the ice? He was thought dead for like 80 years.
    – is Thor an illegal alien? What's his citizenship status?

    – how liable is Bruce Banner for whatever the Hulk does? They are portrayed as different personalities.
    – how about Hawkeye killing people while being mind controlled by Loki?

    – the genetical manipulation being done by Ozcorp in Spider-Man movies? (and the spider that bites Peter, he got really sick but he got better so how bad is it?)

  41. Objection! You spelled habeas corpus wrong on one of the graphics and offered an insufficiently literal translation of 'habeas' (2nd person singular present active subjunctive), rendering it as if it were an imperative (and the verb 'habere' means 'to have' not 'to produce' – you'd have to say 'produc/profer corpus' to express "produce the body")

  42. Somewhat disturbing how much of this stuff real world America falls foul of, it appears to be a due process and profiling minefield that has somehow become fairly standard and accepted. Who says comic books can't teach you anything?

  43. And yet, no one thinks Abraham Lincoln did anything wrong in his presidency, in spite of him arresting the Maryland senate and suspending Habeus Corpus to hold them indefinitely without trial until the Civil War was over. Why? Because some of them were in favor of secession.

    So, a good thing, right? But if that is your thinking, then you believe that the ends justify the means…

  44. In all seriousness, the best scene in the entire MCU thus far is after Mjolnir knocks Thanos down and is then revealed to have been thrown by (and returns to) Captain America!!!

  45. Objection: In the MCU, SHIELD is not a private organization, it was created by, funded by, and (loosely) managed by the US government and it's WWII allies (including the UK, Canada, India, and France).

  46. The civil war wasn’t fought over slavery!

    Why do people still think that when there’s so much evidence available that it wasn’t?

  47. Boomers: "Kids these days are ruining patriotism in schools by not saying the Pledge of Allegiance"
    West Virginia Board of Ed v. Barnette 319 US 624 (1943): ok boomer.

  48. I want to know what would happen to spider-man after the events of his second mcu movie. If you have seen spider-man far from home then you'd know that in the end his identity is revealed on a new site the dailybugle.net the villain of the movie, before he died, made a video of him saying peter's identity and using altered footage to blame the attack of London on spider-man. What would happen? Would peter be seen a terrorist? Would he have an american trial? Would the UK want to put peter on trial? Would this proof from the new media site be valid enough for him to arrested? What would the aftermath of this situation look like for peter?

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