2020 Democratic Candidates Battle For Attention | All In | MSNBC



I'm here to ask for your support because I am prepared to make the case for America and to prosecute the case against Donald Trump now is not the time to be polite now is not the time for small steps now is the time to fight like hell let's remove every barrier in place a new Voting Rights Act for this country no more purges of the voter rolls or voter IDs to keep people out right now in America there is a real hunger there are people who are ready for big structural change in this country they're ready for change and I got a plan for that they're all enthusiastic those are just four of the 19 different Democratic presidential candidates who showed up at the Iowa Democratic Party's 2019 Hall of Fame event this weekend joining me now from the ground in Iowa Dave Wagle national political correspondent for the Washington Post here with me in New York Amy Alison founder of she the people which held its own presidential forum in April and MSNBC contributor Sam cedar host of the majority report and ring of fire radio welcome to all of you Dave I'm going to start with you you are there on the ground what's the feeling because it looks very energetic the pieces that we added together and put on TV mmm well I thought your last segment about the Des Moines Register poll was really telling that is what you've been seeing on the ground we were waiting for numbers to show up to prove it elect Elizabeth Warren is getting large crowds audiences that are signing up to support her they can change their minds but they really live those events fired up people the judge has caught on the embed o'rourke has lost lost some steam and there's not a great desire by people for Joe Biden you have there are supporters of Joe Biden he's definitely in the lead right now but you have a lot of conversations in Iowa that began or end with I like Joe Biden but and then they list a couple reasons why they liked somebody else or and they'll make it excuse like I think you can win but then they start making the case for one of these five other candidates who are bunched up in the middle of that poll which plays interesting Lee in Iowa because that's what people who don't know that are between a caucus state you know in a primary in the caucus states you your second choice is sometimes important because you've got to move so in the corner Amy you've had a chance to talk to some of these candidates what's your sense of it well the Iowa poll for example shows a test case of when a presidential candidate runs a campaign with the Democratic Party strongest most loyal voters that's women of color in mind or not look from day one Joe Biden has been running a campaign as if he doesn't need women of color everything from the non-apology to Anita Hill to I believe is miss handling and the Luci Flores allegations all the way to a long support of Hyde Amendment where he just recently flip-flopped all of those really speak to deep issues important to women of color I've been saying I said then and I say now no one's gonna win that primary without enthusiastic support of women of color on the other hand we look at someone like Warren who is organizing her campaign really speaking to the base and you can see that she started out a couple of months ago at our forum many people were discounting her campaign was dead in the water and look at her now she made her case and impress 2,000 women of color who sang her praises from the rooftop and now look she is among the top and her momentum is is like picking up steam where Joe Biden will continue to drop unless he makes some major changes in his campaign strategy no it's early yet Sam so he can't make major strange changes to the campaign but you know I heard people saying today that that's not look that's not a good look that he's not showing up at some of these things well I mean it's not a good look that he's not showing up there but it also he has a problem that none of the other candidates have which is his support is a function of this belief that he can win and that he can win hands-down he's a slam dunk he's a sure thing that's why I support him every time he has to change when he reverses a forty-year held position the Hyde Amendment after two days of getting criticized and that indicates there's a meta story there and it indicates he's weak he's weak in a way that people hadn't seen before and that starts to I think basically it becomes a feedback loop and the more he shows that he's got a change to fit the electorate the more it suggests that maybe he's not as electable as people thought and that's the strength of his support right now I mean so I think like you know you see the candidates like Buddha judge and and Warren moving up and oddly you know no one's mentioning Bernie Sanders and part of that I think is that he seems to be banking stuff in some ways like he's out and he's organizing with Walmart workers he's organizing with McDonald's workers with teachers he's going to these things he's not even talking about a vote from me he's actually going out and practicing what has we've seen a lot of with these teachers strikes which is sort of like a a broader organizing that is beyond his own campaign and I think he's banking support that we may see later so so Dave let's look at that Paul again the Des Moines Register poll where you've got Joe Biden at 24 he slipped a few points and he got Bernie Sanders Elizabeth Warren and Pete boo to judge all up next to each other 16 15 and 14 Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are occupying a very similar Lane mm-hmm I think I think that's fair they share a lot of supporters but keep in mind Bernie Sanders got 50 percent of the vote but practically in the last in the last caucuses he's got about a third of that right now and you meet voters constantly in Iowa who voted for him last time in basically three baskets they're people who adore Bernie Sanders think he should be president think no one else can win there people who voted for him because they didn't like Hillary and people who voted for him because they agreed with the direction you want to move the party but that didn't necessarily want him to be president they liked the idea but they had their you meet people who kind of liked Hillary we're happy to vote for but voted for burning to move her which succeeded in 2016 and they are very gettable by a lot of campaigns the Sanders campaign saying I think fairly that this poll doesn't reflect the entire electorate is gonna show up in 2020 the Cory Booker's campaign he's doing very well in favorables in this poll they say look there's gonna be more people who find him and like him but a lot of people are cannibalized in that Bernie Sanders 2016 voter and I think it's kind of dawning on people in the Sanders camp that that support what Sam was saying the the word banks not everyone who agrees with his ideas isn't necessarily in his camp right now that is a long-term problem that I haven't seen it fixed yet certainly not not in the the course of one afternoon on Sunday so let's go to bucket three the bucket of ideas the people who liked Bernie Sanders ideas didn't necessarily think it was about him to your point Amy there are a number of candidates out there who are providing ideas policy structures that whether it's it's women of color or people of color or anybody else there seems to be a hunger for that maybe that's a reaction to Donald Trump maybe there's just a hunger because people want policy does that does that last in the long term because we're a year and a half out we're a year and a half out but we since we have such a large field I think the bar is a lot higher it's not just good intentions that are gonna win there's not name ID also we talked about that earlier Biden pulled really high because people know knew his name Sanders pulls very high because people know him from 2016 election but I think everything's going to change in the debate look it in in our event a couple of months ago we saw if Elizabeth Warren I mentioned her earlier she presented and rolled out a comprehensive policy strategy on black maternal health yes it's a a very big itself is specific except it's kind of an important average it's kind of important to everyone moms being healthy when they give birth in hospitals and it becomes it's a very important issue to black women to women of color so we we see these are kind of issues that the core voters are looking for very policy specific and some of those top people in the poll like auto jag have really got to get their game on in terms of coming up with really specific policy platforms and ideas people are not looking to be in the muddy middle they're really looking for bold policies it'll take us not only to beat Trump but beyond yeah you think saying we got like 15 seconds but do you think these this 20-plus candidates makes it to January no I think I think we'll be down to closer to ten or twelve by then just ten or twelve those days Dave why go great to see you in Iowa Amy Allison thank you very much Sam cedar as well this is the we we appreciate the analysis and we'll check in with all three of you very frequently there I'm Chris Hayes from MSNBC thanks for watching MSNBC on youtube if you want to keep up to date with the videos we're putting out you can click subscribe just below me or click over on this list to see lots of other great videos

BJP Leader Arvind Dharmapuri Exclusive Interview | Election Politics | Political View | 99TV



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President Donald Trump Changes His Mind About That Whole Going To The Moon Thing | All In | MSNBC



thing one tonight you may remember a couple months ago here we took a deep dive and I mean a really deep dive into the Mike Pence archives it is the stated policy of this administration and the United States of America to return American astronauts to the moon within the next five years yeah we made the video look old-timey but Mike Pence really is out there talking about how we are going to the moon again right here in the 21st century as president Trump said we will return American astronauts to the moon for the first time since 1972 the president has directed NASA and administrator Jim bridenstine to accomplish this goal by any means necessary well it's a good thing Mike Pence has absolutely no pride whatsoever because the president has once again pulled the rug out from under him announcing today out of the blue no we're not going to the stupid moon and that's thing too in 60 seconds president Trump has been talking about going to the moon since he got into office first he changed the national space policy to say that we would lead the return of humans to the moon in March he sent Mike Pence out to announce a five-year moon trip timetable just last week he announced a new moon partnership Japan will join our mission to send us astronauts to space we'll be going to the moon we'll be going to Mars very soon it's very exciting so that was last week and you know how the president gets when he's watching his shows well here we go again NASA is opening a Space Station to more commercial activities in other words it's inviting you to take part in all of this as it is refocusing on the moon the next sort of the quest if you will but didn't we do this moon thing quite a few decades ago yeah we went to the moon already whose dumb ideas is to go back the president watching krump TV on his airplane made a tweet for all the money we were spending NASA should not be talking about going the moon we did that 50 years ago they should be focused on the much bigger things we are doing including Mars of which the moon is a part defense and capital s science exclamation point so there you have it the moon is out also it's part of Mars I don't know it's getting really tough to follow to be honest but although someone probably should break the news to the head of moon force over here it's too hard it's too risky it's too expensive history is written by those who dare to dream big and do the impossible [Applause] hey there I'm Chris Hayes from MSNBC thanks for watching MSNBC on YouTube if you want to keep up to date with the videos we're putting out you can click subscribe just below me or click over on this list to see lots of other great videos

President Donald Trump Measures Up To The Moment In Speech | Morning Joe | MSNBC



[Applause] president Donald J Trump delivering what at least I believed to be his most powerful speech that he's given as president the United States from certainly the most moving setting it followed a remarkable speech as well from President McCrone the president Trump began by talking about gathering here on freedom's altar and the speech had to be reassuring to the allies who he had been been in in the at least pitched rhetorical battle with over the past several years talking about an alliance that is unbreakable talking about British resolve French valor the fighting poles the intrepid Aussies who made this possible now the lang of the wreath and a moment of silence [Applause] remain seated as presidents macro and president Trump greet three or two veterans mica as president Trump and president McCrone greet the World War two d-day vets and your thoughts on the President's speech well I think the entire ceremony was beautiful and it is an education within itself you really feel the magnitude of this moment in history even 75 years later and to see the veterans who were there sitting on the stage is something you hope to never forget in your life and Trump's speech itself was very good and and measured up to the moment and really was a true salute to the unity of this day and and he spoke about not only the sacrifices that were made but our allies and the importance of unity it was a really good speech it did measure up to the moment as you said it seems that Ronald Reagan in 1984 on the 40th anniversary really set the stage for these commemorations it was remarkable the words that he spoke that peggy noonan helped craft about the boys of Pointe du Hoc very moving other presidents did not fare quite as well Bill Clinton and George W Bush come to mind but really the president President Trump had several high moments of course we'll all be talking about the men that he spoke of but there will be headlines from this speech and certainly I think across Europe at least among our allies they will be positive headlines the president again talking about British resolve in French valor talking about the fighting polls talking about the intrepid Aussies but also talking about an alliance that was forged in war strengthened in peace and is unbreakable today that those are words that our allies have wanted to hear from this commander in chief for some time and perhaps it was this remarkable setting that finally got the president to say what they had been wanting to hear for the first two and a half years of his presidency yeah one of the last lines of that speech Joe was god bless our allies right before he said god bless america we'll see now if he hits policy and and further rhetoric that lives up to that but I totally agree with both of you I thought it was a terrific speech I thought he did a great job telling the story of d-day through the men and women who were sitting there behind them I thought it was preceded by another great speech from President macron who expressed the awe and gratitude we're all feeling today the line that President Trump delivered quote you are among the greatest Americans who will ever live you were the pride of our nation you are the glory of our Republic and isn't that the truth Michael Beschloss I thought he weaved together also I'm glad he acknowledged Marion win the 92 year old who as a teenager became a pipe welder to join the war effort as six million other women bid and also whose brother died and who lays in the American Cemetery there the ceremony today yes I sure agree with you Willie that this day is really about the vets and especially because this is probably the last time that we'll be able to have a ceremony ceremony like this with so many people who were active in the war effort and there were heroes of d-day the thing I thought was interesting especially contrasted with all those other celebrations where American presidents attended was before Donald Trump spoke and we heard from president McComb who was almost a lecture to our president and he kept on saying dear president Trump and he would say things like America is never better than when we were fighting America's fighting for freedom and for democratic ideals and he offered to renew the friendship with France that's something he would never have had to have a French president do before in our history so I hope that this is something that closes the circle with some healing and that when President Trump said those nice things about our allies and about our alliance I hope he really means it and I hope he'll remember what he said beyond today hmm let us hope that tweets do not follow well let's hope the this moment continues and all I will say of President McCrone words and challenges to the president I also David Ignatius I'm glad that the president chose to have the discipline to stick to script and deliver what again I believe is the strongest speech of his presidency and there was one especially beautiful moment and I loved the thought because any World War two documentary you see any Vietnam documentary you see when the interviewer starts talking about them being heroes they will tear up and they'll say the heroes were the ones that never came back well President Trump said that that's what these these heroes were saying the heroes were the one's buried here behind us and yet he went on to say to talk about the remarkable life that was created by this generation who Tom Brokaw called The Greatest Generation and you can take the ending of Saving Private Ryan where Tom Hanks character said to Private Ryan earn this as he lay dying on that bridge that's what this generation did they earned this well I thought president Trump hit pretty much every note right in this speech it was well written it was well delivered I think he came here understanding that this was an event that required him to tell the American story not Donald Trump story not not a personal a vocation but something about what really resonates through presidencies through generations and we heard it and as we heard the president tell the stories of these veterans behind him and that frail rising to receive the applause of the audience I think all of us felt that President Trump on our behalf was thinking these brave now old men who came here 75 years ago so today was the day when President Trump got it right and I think we all feel that watching and listening to him he got it right not only by talking about what the United States did but Mike I think most importantly raising our allies lifting our allies up just as McCrone had lifted us up lifting up those who made victory over Hitler possible he did do that and the speech was much more than just appropriate and that's high that's a high bar for Donald Trump that we've all become familiar with now the question is off of what he said about the alliance that was formed literally here with the lives of these people these young men behind us buried now for 75 years the the crux of that speech is going to be when angle of Merkel leaves here today when McCrone leaves here today when the leaders of Norway in Poland sitting watching the speech in Dublin watching the speech are they going to what are they gonna be saying they're gonna be saying well which Donald Trump are we gonna get tomorrow well which Donald Trump will we gonna get next week in negotiations about NATO which Donald Trump we were going to get went when he comes to talk about tariffs are we gonna get the Donald Trump we've become used to what we're gonna get the Donald Trump who is clearly more than appropriate here today in his remarks so I wrote earlier this week in The Washington Post about separating the ground noise from the signal there certainly was a lot of ground noise leading in to this trip talking about supposed to insults and debates whether princess was insulted or not if you look at the signal and for me that is how does he treat our allies when he is overseas you look at actually mica the the generosity of spirit he showed to Teresa may someone that he has been quite fierce with in the past and what he said here today think safe to say this is one of his more successful trips abroad if not his most successful trip abroad well but let me say okay that bop bop thus far and and as an American I'm hoping we can all say that when we are in the event that is about much more than him and we've got much more ahead to cover and incredible stories including Andrea Mitchell will be joining us with more on the story of the woman who is here thanks for checking out MSNBC on YouTube and make sure you subscribe to stay up-to-date on the day's biggest stories and you can click on any of the videos around us to watch more 4 Morning Joe and MSNBC thanks so much for watching

Has Brexit Broken British Politics? | Mark Francois, Leanne Wood, Barry Gardiner, Anatole Kaletsky



welcome everyone to this I think the final political debate of the festival I think the only thing that emerged from last night is that we are still very much in uncharted territory so this debate we will try to keep instead of fighting the last war yet again we will try to keep thinking about where we go from here and what that future begins to look like and I'm delighted to have with me on the platform a splendid panel on my far right mark Francois there was a lot of that this morning Conservative Party politician previously a Ministry Minister of State at the Ministry of Defence Armed Forces etc etc in 2018 he was appointed the deputy chair and de facto whip of the Euroskeptic european research group led by its chair jacob riis MOG Leon wood will be known around here welsh politician former leader of plied camry and member of the National Assembly for Ronda since 2016 identifies I'm told as a socialist a Republican and a proponent of Welsh independence is that a fair description that's about right very good and Barry Gardner Barry garden is a Labour Party politician he's shadow Secretary of State for international trade and for international climate change I think we could say voted remain absolutely but so he's a recovering remain voter and and Anatole collects key known to many of you I'm sure the Economist and writer gosh a long and distinguished career award-winning commentator columnist for The Times so I'm going to invite all of the panelists beginning with mark to lay out their pitch really on on the on the kind of opening question of where Oh we're Britain's heading what is Britain's future mark on this momentous morning madam Jim colleagues ladies and gentlemen thank you very much for inviting me to participate in this very timely debate you said you wanted to look forward so I think it's because of last night for reasons we can get into I think it's now even more likely that we will leave the European Union on the 31st of October 2019 that is now the legal default position but I don't think that we want to go to No Deal as a desired end state the desired end state that we want is a comprehensive free trade agreement with our European partners which would allow us to trade with them with low or no tariffs to our mutual economic advantage into the foreseeable future there is already such an agreement between the EU and Canada that was signed in 2016 so there is already a strong precedent which the EU have accepted by virtue of the fact they've signed it so what we would do is take that existing agreement as a template modify it probably add a protocol on data one on security because of our important security commitments in Europe some other changes that's known conceptually as super Canada and we would go forward with that so while I'm personally I've never accepted project fear I would be prepared to go through a brief period of training on WTO terms often referred to as no deal to get to super Canada to be clear no deal is not the desired outcome it's a free trade agreement and very quickly my boss Jacob Riis MOG has recently written a book Steve Baker's writing a book so not so as not to be left out I'm going to write a book slightly about brexit but more about the mad life of a member of parliament in the 21st century and I'm going to call it you couldn't make it up I haven't got a publisher yet so I thought I'd announce it at the Hay Festival so if any of you are connected in the literary words please see me afterwards for a 5% cut thank you very much madam chair well I'm very relieved to hear you couldn't make it up because I've had a suspicion in the last few months that a lot of people be making a lot of things up so hey Leon where's Britain headed well I think we could go in two different directions really the European election results last night showed me that while they may if you add up all the pro remain parties be a slight majority now four remain it's still very close I don't think it's as decisively changed as much as I I would like it to have and I think that it shows that if if brexit does happen in October and a new harder right leader of the Conservatives then we could end up going out without a deal which for Wales certainly and and specific specific industries like our farm and industry would be absolutely awful we could be looking at a situation where everything is is done to try and make a trade deal with the United States amenable and I could include us having to privatize or make big changes to our NHS for example or we could take a completely different approach to all of this and refuse completely to take the the path of the the far right and and the path that they want to take us down with increased hate crime misogyny racism and all those other things that we've seen for the last few years we could do something completely differently and this is why I support independence for Wales it's not something that can happen tomorrow but I think that if we worked in our communities and built from the grassroots up a different kind of politics a politics which was aiming for self-sufficiency using the amazing natural resources that we've got in our communities that are untapped at the moment our human resources our energy resources our food resources we could bear independence from the bottom up and build resilience into our communities in case things go pear-shaped like I fear that they could thank you very much Anatole I think actually so far the reporting the results last night have been rather misleading as a big triumph for the brexit party in particular and the forces of no deal or hard brexit in general that was how the story looked like it was going to turn out and as a former as a recovering journalist I can tell you there's a lot of inertia in the way that the journalists think about the world they tend to see what they expect to see the fact is that last night was a pretty stunning surprise and the really surprising and unexpected story last night was actually was it was a big defeat for the forces of no deal and hard brexit I'm not saying it's not going to happen but the result was brexit party plus UK plus Tories 44% of the total vote the clearly remained parties Lib Dems greens like Kumari etc plus labour 54% of the vote so 44 to 54% now we're going to hear from Barry in a minute whether labour really is a romaine party or not under the circuit under the circumstance of that in which we now find ourselves of a potential no deal or very basic Canada plus but I think if it turns out that Labour is now really no main party then in voting terms we have a 54:44 difference which is quite a significant one in terms of seats is even more surprising because in the current European Parliament there were 43 seats either for you Kip or for the Tories against only 27 pro-eu seats in the new European Parliament the majority has flipped the other way there are going to be 37 Pro eum peas and that clearly includes all the Labour MPs who elected against only 33 UK plus stories so actually it was quite a remarkable outcome now the result of that I think looking forward is that whoever is the next Tory leader will face a situation in which he was at all my certainty will be he will have promised to the Conservative Party that he is willing to take Britain out on a No Deal basis by October 31st and the top and only priority is to get out on October 31st regardless of the circumstances but in practice he will not be able to do that because although the current mark is absolutely right that the current default legislation is that Britain leaves on October 31st Deal or No Deal the same was true on March 29th this year and the fact is there was no majority in parliament to allow that and now I think there's going to be an even clearer majority in parliament to prevent no deal partly because four of mark's colleagues have already left the party so the conservative majority even with the DUP is now either 5 or 8 depending on how you calculate it so it's much smaller it would only take between 3 & 5 conservatives to flip to actually defeat the government and partly also I think because it'll be so overwhelmingly against the personal interests of the new Conservative leader to risk a general election that he would never be prepared to put himself into the situation where label would be able and willing to call a confidence vote and therefore I think the overwhelming likelihood is that we will get another extension to the extension regardless of any promises we made during the during the leadership and the real question is what's going to happen in the next in the 6 or 9 months after that partly I think because and here I'm actually rather encouraged and may not disagree so much with mark that it may well be that the new conservative leadership decides that Canada Plus is what they really want to achieve and they will go to the EU and say that is our objective in a way the Teresa may never did make clear now that objective could possibly be achieved but not in three weeks or even three months that'll be a long negotiation taking three or four years and I think it's quite possible that what will happen is that instead of having the Irish backstop debate we will simply have a very long transition period of three or four years during which this Canada plus or some such arrangement can be negotiated which will enable the new Conservative leader to say I've delivered brexit I'm going in the direction of a pure free trade agreement but in the meantime for the next three or four years nothing will have changed I think that's actually now the most likely scenario well thank you Anatole that was very comprehensive and and clearly it remains complicated now Barry you're sitting in the belly of the beast presumably trying to stop a new deal brexit where do you see things how do you see this playing out I want to look to Britain's future a little bit longer than just the next few weeks or months i-i've is–it it one of my primary schools at the beginning of last week and I asked the head teacher what it was that his Latin motto meant and rather embarrassingly he didn't know and and so I checked it out it was munis Priory I don't know how many Latin scholars there are here and I could know but [Laughter] it's duty before rights now yesterday writing in The Observer David Isaac the chair of the equality and Human Rights Commission said that the challenge is to ensure we don't end up in the siloed world where everybody is sensitive about their own individual interests and less empathetic about how other people are treated and what he's identified I think as the key issue is how we move beyond the I to the we how do we think of ourselves as citizens who are not just focused on what works for me and my own narrow group so the question what is Britain's future the question has two answers a future based on I or a future based on we a future based on my rights or a future based on my duties my obligations now my view is Monas prior a duties before rights and about 35 years ago I had the privilege to to be taught by the philosophy by a man called John Rawls and in his seminal work a theory of justice he set out a vision of justice as fairness that was practical and political rather than absolute and metaphysical and any conception of political justice he thought had to rise to the challenge of pluralism and allow for a variety of sometimes conflicting ideas of what is good and right and that they had to be able to be affirmed in a democratic society so in the 60 seconds I've got remaining to me I simply want to say that we are currently I think locked in a struggle between those who see their identities as rooted in place and class and a particular culture and those who see their identities as fluid and global and culturally open like the heavens hey come on I've got to get next to ten seconds for this this is me gods on your side these gods tried to shut me up I think God just wants to know is it leave or remain buried which is it did you organize it this is whether bury okay I will try and project oh really okay look I think our politics no longer exists in that post-war consensus around a welfare state and certainly not in a society of a shared belief in God or a shared belief in loyalty to the crown and I don't hanker after those days but I recognize that they provided a glue which bound people together and in order to achieve social stability politics has to enable individual citizens to come together in shared public institutions individual citizens each who may have a different conception of what it is to live a good life yet when they come to participate in those public institutions now they don't find their sense of self-worth affirmed on the contrary they often find their beliefs produced and their identity rejected and whether we're talking about creationist parents not wanting their children taught about evolution or anti-abortionists attacking doctors in the health service or just elderly couples living in a street where the language spoken is no longer their own in our society we have not yet developed a civic discourse that is able to rise to the challenge of pluralism and I think that that goes to the heart of the brexit dilemma if each of us engages with our fellow citizens first by insisting upon our rights what we believe is owed to us then I suspect we never will develop that discourse if on the other hand we start with our own obligations to our fellow citizens if we go back to the primary school motto duty before rights then perhaps we will and that that is the sort of future for Britain that I want to see Thank You Barry and thank you for reminding us that that political change often has quite deep cultural roots which I which I think gets forgotten so one of the ongoing conversations since the referendum is is what what that did to our democracy and and partly the mixing of two different kinds of democracy of the direct and the representative so mark I'd like you to begin on the kind of next theme really which is looking at the destruction the evidence last night of the of the collapse of the two major parties general confusion and chaos has the brexit process actually broken our democracy no although it's put it under pressure I mean Barry that was fascinating but with still no clearer whether the Labour Party wants to leave the European Union or remain in it I think we can let Barry talk to the Labour Party well well he did but was still no clearer but anyway I believe democracy's been under pressure for a simple reason in the House of Commons politicians argued for 40 years about Europe we've been arguing about it almost since the day we joined what was then the European Economic Community so in the end we agreed that we could not agree and we voted overwhelmingly to put the question to the people in a referendum and the gunman spent 9 million pounds in a booklet I hope you remember it you paid for it that went through every door in the UK before the vote and said at the back in the concluding page this is a once in a generation decision and then it said this is your decision the government will implement what you decide and the people decided to leave and the government and Parliament's didn't implement it there were many people in what you might call the establishment who never accepted the result of the referendum and did everything in their power to frustrate it well you will forgive me for saying that this is not an unfamiliar case you're making here and the question is whether that whole process has so damaged his democracy that we are or that we are currently stuck with respect madam chairman you've asked me a question and you must allow me the opportunity to honor I'm inviting you to answer it well forgive me but I believe forgive me madam chairman but I believe I was the point is well the point is is we didn't do what we said in the booklet we didn't leave we didn't honor the promise and that is why and you can spin it any way you like sir the brexit party romped it last night they got more seats a higher percentage of the votes and they're now the largest individual party in the entire European Parliament the the reason that happened where the people in this tent like it or they don't is because the politicians broke their promise and that's why democracy is under pressure and until we keep that promise it will continue to be under pressure madam chairman you may not like my answer but that's it I'm still waiting for it but carry on the old guarantee well I think democracy was broken before the brexit process I think the process of austerity and the fact that people at this witness in their communities the closing down of vital community assets and facilities that they had to witness and go through welfare reform which has been cruel and callous and horrible to so many people plunging people into further poverty yet they vote in elections for parties that say they want to end austerity and nothing changes those are the sorts of reasons that led people out of sheer frustration to press that button to tell politicians that they weren't happy with them when they were given an opportunity in the referendum in 2016 and then that referendum was frustrated by the lies that were told the terrible eyes on the back of a bus which promised 350 million pounds every week into the NHS to people who were absolutely desperate to see those waiting lists and those waiting times in A&E reduced those people who are petrified because they've got children with certain conditions and they know that an ambulance might not come and get them on time this is what austerity has delivered and this is what people wanted to end what we saw last night what we saw in the referendum in 2016 was a big ask for change people are fed up with the status quo people are fed up in temporary accommodation in insecure zero-hour contracts jobs fed up of having to rely upon food banks they desperately desperately want to change and what's happening now politicians because let's fit let's face it as well they want to change but then in the strong and stable election that happened afterwards they voted for a hung parliament so you know it was a very very difficult situation after that to see how this was ever going to be resolved and my party has said there needs to be a people's vote I'm a bit nervous about that I have to say because I think there are implications for democracy but I also think the situation has changed a lot in two-and-a-half years and for democracy now to mean something again we've got to ask the people again what it is that they want to do especially if we look on course to leave without a deal because no matter what people wanted in terms of the change that they voted for nobody I'm pretty sure would vote to lose their job to make the economic situation much much worse than it already is people want changed for the better and not change for the worst barri you gave us an account of what you see is the cultural underpinnings of this but you know it nevertheless that there is a loss of faith in politics you're you're you know a member of a party that took a terrible hammering last night one of one of two this is this is a broken process do you think it was broken before brexit or do you think brexit just finally did it look if democracy is supposed to be the system of government that vests authority ultimately in the people and in our particular version of it as a representative democracy then in their representatives in Parliament then I think far from being broken brexit is actually shown that our democratic Parliament precisely reflects the division that we have in the public and here we have mark on one end claiming that the results of last night vindicate a a hard no deal leave and Anatole at the other end and indicating that if you do the arithmetic actually it vindicates remaining in the in the EU and now with respect they can't both be right I know who I would side with but but my point is that we it's with Anatole sorry mark and my my point my point is that the country is absolutely divided on this and parliamentary democracy our type of democracy is supposed to resolve that through a process of rational debate by reasonable people so far from telling us that actually democracy is broken I think all the brexit process is done is actually to tell us that maybe Parliament is not filled with rational and reasonable people how did that happen we'll get on to that well III I'd like to I suppose my roles I'm the only one who's not a politician on this stage is to try to reconcile and synthesize what the others have said and I will do it by challenging the moths say I think they're wrong I think democracy really is broken in this country but what it's been broken by is not the very legitimate criticisms about the economic social consequences of austerity and all that kind of thing because they are part of the democratic Radek process you know there is that that's exactly what democracy is about some people want austerity other people want public services what it's been broken by was the very fact of having a referendum because and this this is where I'd like to develop slightly barracks what the point is the point is that the democracy in this country is a representative parliamentary democracy and has been throughout history actually almost every successful democracy that has ever existed has been a representative democracy rather than a direct democracy and the reason for that is that although the ultimate sovereignty is vested in the people you cannot and should not let the people decide specific issues not because they're incapable of it or they're too stupid or too misinformed but because each issue has to be decided in the context of a whole lot of other issues you can't ask people a simple yes/no question and then hope to implement and you know yeah Europe and and the example the example I always given I gave it here last night so I'm sorry to repeat it is that if you ask in a website or referendum you ask people would you like to have more and more gender than to more generous public services overwhelmingly you'd have a referendum saying yes if you ask people would you like to pay lower taxes overwhelmingly in a referendum you would say yes well the answer to that could be more government borrowing but if you ask people in a referendum do you think we should have more government borrowing overwhelmingly every referendum would say no and that's why you cannot decide these issues that are not just complex but interlocked and interconnected through a direct democracy and that's why we have Parliament now what has happened is that the referendum and and mark is right that Parliament took this decision to turn it over to the people and say that this is a once and for all decision and that was the big mistake that was the original sin and it you know it was david cameron's however i would just add one other point ok so that original sin occurred people were asked they did give a judgment by a arguably decisive but small margin but there are then those people who now complain well that was not implemented democracy has been broken because parliament gave a promise which they have failed to implement that I think has a completely false criticism what is Parliament been doing for the last three years if not to implement the referendum they have been doing nothing else we have lost your we've had a government which was totally committed to implementing this referendum it had it held a general election and then it lost its majority but even after losing majority it continued to be obsessed with implementing this referendum we've now lost a prime minister as a result of her determination to do nothing but implement the results of the referendum so after three years of Parliament and government banging their heads against this brick wall trying to implement a referee is it reasonable to go back to the people and say well we've tried our damnedest but we can't do it do you want us to continue banging our heads against a brick wall if the people want us to happen fair enough David Davis himself said the fine of sin if a democracy can't change its mind it ceases to be a democracy at all I think that's a really fine analysis of what's happened and I want to back it up with the the determination of the Supreme Court because what the Supreme Court did when it was considering the role of parliament in triggering article 50 is it said that the referendum decided that we should leave the EU but it was for Parliament to decide how and as you say parliament has desperately been trying to decide how and has found it incapable of coming up with a satisfactory answer and if I can give one apology to you and everybody else it's that at some stage in the process when we were debating having a referendum I did not stand up in Parliament and say this is insane to decide the future of our country on whether mrs. Jones at 52 acacia Avenue happens to die on the 22nd of June or on the 24th of June a 50% plus one referendum cannot be the basis of our country's future for the next 40 years it should have been a threshold there should have been a threshold that said if you want to change the constitution it should be whatever it was 60% 66% that meant it would be determined and decided for the next 20 30 40 years and that would have been the way to do it we didn't do it that way that was a mistake and now we have to move on from where we are right but it's the means I'm moving on which was the arguments that it's difficult to decide complex questions with a binary yes nor referendum I really do and if we've learnt nothin from brexit then we must have learned that the problem man is though if a referendum was wrong the first time around sure Willy a confirmatory referendum is a problem I would also ask if we don't decide these these questions through a referendum or are the means can we have we could have citizens assemblies I suppose and and really take the temperature of people maybe through crowdfunding crowdsourcing like they have determined and constitutional questions in in Iceland for example but the the point about this being a parliamentary democracy surely then after the Scottish referendum was lost by the SNP and the yes campaign in 2014 and in the 2015 election there was a landslide majority for the SNP surely by this argument that we should have decide these things by referenda and we've got a parliamentary democracy those MPs in that election would be the mandate for Scottish independence without a referendum and I think once you start going down that road and then thus potentially quite dangerous as well because to take a big constitutional change you do have to have a majority of public support going with you so I do have sympathy with the argument but the alternative is not quite clear either Anatole would would just have to agree to disagree I think the people of this country are perfectly intelligent and capable of taking a look you may be again well we had a referendum in Scotland on whether to not to establish a Scottish Parliament nobody complained about that and it voted to establish a Scottish Parliament I say we had to well yes we did and in the second one the people of Scotland voted very clearly hang on a minute let's talk let's all have a go yeah so in Scotland the Scottish people voted to establish the Scottish Parliament and that is now in effect an established part of our Constitution no one is suggesting that we abolish it secondly in Wales we had a referendum on whether or not to establish your Welsh Assembly now that was a much more narrow majority but nevertheless the people of Wales decided in a referendum to establish a Welsh Assembly so we have perfectly good examples in our constitutional history of you know having a referendum in order to take decisions but on your argument there wouldn't be a Scottish for a Scottish Parliament because no no this referendum in which it was lost would have stood forever but the people of Scotland had another opportunity to vote yes they're mine a generation on a generation on those people the mood in Scotland clearly has evolved and they then voted that way the booklet that went to every household the other holy texts okay we found that one no no no sorry no we have had that one you'll never know madam chairman you know we're supposed to heckle each other you're not supposed to have well I know you're not really so in 2016 and that make in 2016 it said this is a decision for a generation you said that okay so let's what we just had the results of the of the of the European we have I would say I would point out that two-thirds of the country didn't vote so we're all still trying to interpret these these results on a very narrow evidence base but what does seem to have emerged is that people to answer your point have voted for clarity that those parties that were ambiguous or divided have lost heavily including yours that's correct and those that have posited very clearly that is correct right so is that something that a lesson that we can draw for a way out of this very yes are we are we operating on this Michaels or these much I don't know it can we we back okay look what have we learnt from the election results last night right or wrong the power of a simple message beats complexity hm I've certainly learnt that – the Labour Party's cost from the results last night the other thing that I think we need to learn and and it picks up on some of things that LeAnn was saying about austerity and what we've been saying in the Labour Party about the real divide in this country not be being between those who are you know pro or remain or pro pro leave but actually the real divide being between those who are really suffering in our society I mean internationally the UN now telling us that we have 14 million people living in relative poverty that's the real divide and that means that we have to address what is going on in terms of the rise of the right not just here but also across Europe and it's not Universal but we've seen in France with marine lepen and we've seen in Italy as well the dangers that that's posing and I think that is a real challenge for people who are in the center or on the left of politics and we have to embrace that as as one of the key places that we go to I want we very much want people to have a chance to contribute and and I do want us to spend a few minutes on where do we go from here what one quick remark yeah I didn't say that people were too stupid or ignorant to decide on this question I said that it's very difficult to decide on a binary question but actually let me even resolve from that because there's a point that you made mark which I'd really like to clarify which is why I'm sorry you're I tried to interrupt you let us say that we did absolutely have to abide by the results of the binary referendum which was a leave versus remain random we then had a government whose job it was to implement that result and which took it upon itself very very publicly and consciously to do nothing but implement that result to the last three years it was a government of your party what it said on the ballot paper was leave it was then up to the government and the Prime Minister and cabinet in particular to interpret what leave meant she presented you with that interpretation she said we are going to leave you had every opportunity to leave the EU by March the 29th why did you turn against the people instead we told you – no he's like yeah yeah because you took it upon yourself to interpret leave in the particular way that you want how we get out of this we're still fighting the last war we have you know a new campaign part of the same thing and I think the House of Commons rejected it by 230 votes it was the biggest defeat any government had suffered in the history of Parliament the Labour Party voted biggest defeat in the history of Parliament it wasn't just me and Jacob was it okay all right so how do we move on it seems to me we have we are going to have another another leadership election for the for the Tory party I have to say I was them and I've been reading the Financial Times because I have to say that because I discovered in my Financial Times in case you think I've been reading a disreputable publication that in your party there's now something called operation arse which is right which is the stop Boris campaign who is now described as the kamasutra candidate having held every position on every topic [Applause] [Laughter] the best paper now you tell me how we get out of this what I will tell you is what I believe we in the Labour Party must now do and that is I believe we must now follow through on the logic of what our party's conference decided last year because we said there and that was the commitment that we gave that we would do everything we could to stop a No Deal we do everything we could to stop a bad deal that was going to destroy jobs and our just-in-time supply chain that we would try and and here is where I'm not holy with Anatole in in saying you know we should as the opposition always opposed the government because we promised in our manifesto that we accept would accept the referendum result and we've tried we've tried to deliver on it at the September conference Jeremy made an offer to to resume to try and work together on the basis that we've outlined I don't want to go over it because he's doing so we've tried it but we have failed and and the tragedy is is that for all of the the see change in the mood of the country that may have come from last night the arithmetic in Parliament hasn't and therefore I think what we now need to do is we now need to move into the position that we said we would and that is to say that yes we will now go for a further people's vote I believe that the the difficulty with that now is how we as an opposition deliver it because there is no mechanism for the opposition to introduce into Parliament a bill that would put that in place we can't introduce legislation only the government can do that but what we can do is of course we can put forward a vote of no-confidence which would lead to a different sort of public vote but we should quite clearly now come through and deliver on the position which has been our party's policy since last September okay I'm sorry they're gonna drag us off the stage thank you thank the panel another Bates talks and interference subscribe to download to the Institute of Arts and ideas at III TV