Politics Live 10/07/2019



it's Wednesday it's 11:15 and we're live in Westminster joining me today Boris Johnson supporter Ross Thompson Jeremy Hunt supporter Alistair Burt Liberal Democrat MP Lena Moran and the Meera's political editor hypocrite so what's going on today I for one will be prepared to go and seek judicial review to prevent Parliament being bypassed a former Tory prime minister says he'll take a future Tory prime minister to court to stop them shutting down Parliament the two men who want the top job tear chunks out of each other difference between you and me as you are peddling optimism to get this country off the hamster wheel of doom and that is to get brexit done have you been trying to silence victims of anti-semitism mr corbyn its anti-semitism out of control in the labour party and labour tears itself apart as three of its peers resign it's just not sustainable to continue you have to take a decision about what your own ethics are let's start today's show with a little bit more from the former conservative Prime Minister John Major let's strip away the jargon of provoking and contemplate what this actually means what it means that a Prime Minister Prime Minister Johnson presumably because he cannot persuade Parliament to agree with his policy will close down Parliament so that he can bypass it until his policy comes into operation if that were to happen I think there would be a queue of people who would seek judicial review the Queen's decision cannot be challenged in law but the Prime Minister's advice to the Queen can I believe be challenged in law and I for one would be prepared to go and seek judicial review to prevent Parliament being bypassed well extraordinary intervention there from John Major the response from Team Boris Johnson is a source saying John Major has gone completely mad his plan is absurd is the source right Ross well I do find him a bizarre intervention from John Major when I think it was he himself as she perused Parliament and to avoid the cash for access issue being raised in Parliament but look at the end of the day and all of us except that whoever is elected leader of our party we have to unite behind we have been plagued by division and for the last couple of years and whoever is elated we should get behind and given that John Major was a big advocate during his time as Prime Minister that we should unite behind our leader and I hope he would understand that and we should and we should all get Hines whether it's Boris Johnson Jeremy Hunt and to the country forwards Alister John Major would not have made his intervention this morning if Boris Johnson had answered a question yesterday and said he was not in any way prepared to probe Parliament I'll shut it down yeah but he didn't the opportunity was there to end this once and for all which is what we all want Jeremy Hunt was very clear he won't consider such a step we know the price it is tubulin was absolutely right we know we've got to get through this and come together and the country must go forward but using such constant unconstitutional means would be I think catastrophic now we don't need to be there if Boris Johnson would say very clearly he has no intention of programming Parliament then we don't need to consider any of these debates think Boris has been quite clearly doesn't want to use our case yet but at the end of the day when you're in a negotiation which we are with the European Union you can't start ruling things out and you have to have every option on the table even though you don't want to to use it I think it's absolutely wrong that when you want to achieve the best deal for the country any lawyer would tell you going to any negotiation on anything you don't rule anything out and I think it's absolutely right the Boris Johnson it doesn't do you do rule out bypassing Parliament you do rule out taking down is that the essence of our democracy and by prorogue in Parliament at a point where we are facing a potential catastrophe of no deal on the October the 31st bypassing Parliament bypassing us representing our constituents and their interests that's what pro rogen means it means we don't get any votes Lord wants them well why doesn't Boris Johnson just say he doesn't want that Oh chief a deal we won't need to because he is the only candidate in this leadership election that will achieve a deal before the third time later my question milena my question was is John Major's plan the idea that he would go to court a former conservative prime minister taking the next conservative prime minister to court is that completely mad no I think it is an extra sand extraordinary intervention by a man and I never thought I was going to be a John Major fan in my life but you've discovered it today have you just today I think his is thoughtful interventions all the way through along this process have are worth listening to and so for someone like that he was not known for his high drama suggesting that he's going to do this I think underlines the issue we potentially have with a Boris Johnson prime ministership almost 26 years 26 years this month that John Major was caught on tape describing some of his Euroskeptic cabinet ministers as I'm not sure I'm allowed to say this word in a B word anyway and don't say this and here we are all this time later and Europe is still dividing the Tory Party the Tory Party is still obsessed with it and meanwhile what happens to the rest of the country what happens to public services and to people's lives and to the economy it feels from a public perspective it looks like the Tories three parties in fighting about this at our leadership contest has been completely overshadowed by Breck sets and the rest me nor the rest of the country barons well let's have a listen to a little bit more from that debate last night and Boris Johnson on this subject about shutting down Parliament well I'm not going to take anything off the table any more that I'm gonna take no Dino arts at the table and I think it's absolutely bizarre at this stage in the negotiations for the UK yet again to be weakening its own position Alister as we said and if he doesn't want to provoke Parliament he doesn't want to get into this constitutional difficulty simply has to say we're not going to do this no one is asking for No Deal to be taken off the table it would be it's now an arguable point but both candidates have made very clear that they want to keep no deal on the table we because they see that as part of their negotiation and they both set that out clearly so it's perfectly plausible for a prime minister to come back to Parliament and say I've done everything I can and put the question of no deal to Parliament then Parliament takes so it takes a choice but I have to say it's not just the Conservatives that are consumed with this the country as a whole is divided 50/50 there is one clear party that it wants to stay in that's the Liberal Democrats there's the brexit party with their clear views both the major parties are full of the difficulty that brexit and Europe has caused for 20 30 40 years which is why we do have to solve this we do have to move on as a country and I think we should by leaving and finding the best relationship with Europe for the future which is why I support an agreement and I think Jeremy Hunt is better placed than Boris Johnson because why would the EU want to do a deal with the person who has led the campaign to take the United Kingdom out when there are others were snapping at the heels of the European Union looking for causes of concern I think they'll do a much better deal with Jeremy Hunt and then we'll be able to create the relationship with need with her Europe which is clearly also going to have to change Ross and well I think Alastair made the point there that Boris Johnson led the campaign to leave he believes and breaks a head heart body and soul we've already had a prime minister that was a convert but didn't believe now is the time to have a believer and break so who knows how to get over the line and actually you will take that more seriously this is the guy that led in the summer that believe is actually voting for it I voted I voted to remain in the EU I have voted consistently to leave the EU I have got we have got colleagues who professed that they wanted to leave but they only want to leave on their terms and personam this is looking like a nerdy of rain that's what they see no it's not at all the Prime Minister didn't deliver brick so that's why she was ailing and going try she our own colleagues dr. know it's like this doctor the Labour Party down all right let's be clear dad do you even cover words not Rick's it it wasn't what the country voted for and that's why she didn't have the confidence to have our own Parliament advice John someone come back with that deal Willy I know we should wait I think if you watch the debate unless we say he's very clear that he will achieve a deal with the European Union explained to us because we were confused listening to Boris Johnson Jeremy Hunt accuses him of not having the detail in terms of the plan exactly what is the plan for a deal with the EU I think I think because well first of all it's not more the same Jeremy Hunt is treason a 2.0 and more of the same and it's now time for change and the country one's ripping up that withdrawal agreement also said it's dead absolute it's been defeated three times of crime so what he has said is look let's be good the government got it wrong when agreed to the sequencing of this negotiations from the very beginning which never have offered money on the in the first instance without knowing what the future relationship is going to be so he's taking that out saying once we know we're getting a good deal then what's a good experience he talks about staying in the implementation period how does that work so what will happen is that he will disaggregate withdrawal agreement so let's deal with citizen's rights right now there she's never been an issue for debate that should have been sorted get a bill through Parliament now and guarantee the rights of EU citizens too we cannot pay thirty nine billion parents when we don't know what the future trade relationship is going to be and third thing which is really important that we've been so focused on the issue of the backstop and the boards are when we in Northern Ireland when we know that actually a lot of those issues are to do with future customs policy in this position where you're dealing with that before a negotiation but you still haven't explained but you what you haven't expect we know that to some extent Ross what you haven't explained is Boris Johnson's suggestion that we stay in what we call the implementation period until a free trade agreement is agreed with the EU is that what you're proposing the point is that we will pass a withdrawal agreement to leave the European Union and then during an implementation could you obviously have that negotiation with the European Union on what your future trading relationship should be like but but but Theresa means not doing what Boris Johnson is doing and in fact we giving up 39 billion not guaranteeing EU citizens rights and dealing with the Irish border issue at the beginning before dealing with a trading relationship was just wrong no see this is going to be the first or the last time that we're all going to be confused by what Boris Johnson saying and the fact is there is there are other actors here at play like the European Union yes I have been absolutely categorical they are not opening that withdrawn agreement until the October the 31st are we you can't if you want to stop the clock I'm with you that means revoking article 50 stop the clock and then if he wants to go back no it's not that's not democratic and if we want to stop the clock and starts again which is actually what you kind of suggested I'm with you but that's not what's gonna happen we're gonna end up in an impasse where you know MPs who critically do not want no deal and there's a lot of them on the conservative benches maybe you're happy with it but certainly I know a lot of who aren't are going to have to make a decision and that's when I think the only way through this is going to have to be a referendum that they either ratify that agreement or we remain Alice said the problem for Jeremy Hunt as he tried to argue last night is that he is a man of more detail and that he has better negotiating skills but in of itself there's no substance to how he will get a deal or as Boris Johnson put to him when he would actually leave and so there is a potential as far as Tory party members are that this could go on the hamster wheel of doom as Boris Johnson called it with Jeremy Hunt what Jeremy proposes is by approaching the European Union on the basis that we have a common problem and a shared problem it's the best way to deal with it and we do we know the EU don't want a no deal situation we know the Republic of Ireland doesn't want a no deal situation Jeremy set out last night what he planned to do in relation to the backstop and the Irish part of the agreement and what he wants to technological solutions that as he admitted are not there yet customs check certified traders and that they couldn't replace or protect the single market in the way that you would what you can what you can do as he indicated that by looking at the problem as a shared one by working with colleagues who want to get an agreement by not putting them in a situation where they would want to they would feel under such pressure to make a deal it would put at risk the cohesion of the EU it's a much better position for the European Union and for the UK to be in so it's much more likely to create the deal and then we can move forward well let's listen to Boris Johnson responding when he was asked whether he would resign if the UK didn't leave the EU on October the 31st if we go into these negotiations from the beginning with a plan to allow that deadline yet again to be a to be fungible to be a papier-mache deadline I'm afraid that the EU will not take us seriously okay normal normal business understand that they must prepare for No Deal it's lorrison it's more important isn't it in terms of Boris Johnson as he said that Jeremy Hunt that actually it's number 10 is more important than the future of the country no no I told Boris Johnson is standing this election because he cares deeply about the future of the country and wants to deliver break so because so far the government is filled and I believe he's the only man that can do and you know heaven forbid you saw on that and that TV to be he gets accused of being optimistic my goodness maybe we need some optimism the last couple of optimism vote to actually fix this on its own but he has a plan to fix it but we need to inject some passion and enthusiasm and some self belief in this country again we Forrest Judah we hold on this now he's the same he's the same candidate he Boris Johnson gives you change Jeremy hunts trisomy 2.0 we can't afford to do that this is a line that is just spun out by by a campaign Jeremy Hunt has offered detail as to how he will want to go forward he's very optimistic about the future of the country we can all talk loudly and with passion about where Britain is gonna go but it's not based on anything realistic then it's a false promise and what Jeremy Hunter said he's been very clear that if he can't see a deal coming forward by a particular date he's as committed to preparing for no deal or anything else you're saying a first no matter what we've no matter what the November the first was the possibility November the second a possibility you'd call it all off because of October 30 36 first of October we have to leave ours no matter the damage if it has a new front in the battle being waged to prevent No Deal I mean listening to this and the dates of October the 31st which Jeremy Hunt to go to Christmas John Major now waiting in saying he will go to court if that is what happens Parliament shut down in order to prevent no deal being stopped by MPs is this where the battle is all over No Deal I think the closer we get to October 31st and the more evident it becomes to everyone that Boris Johnson's plans are not going to be accepted by Brussels the more important it will be for MPs to try and stop No Deal and we've started to see the beginnings of some sort of quite creative ways in which by preventing prorogation of parliament MPs can make sure they are around to stop Noddy on have a vote over the last few days now I don't think they knows the moment in the same way I don't think that when Boyce johnson but probably Boyce Johnson becomes prime minister there won't be a no-confidence vote led by Libra just before the summer recess because they know that they need the sort of the momentum the timing the threat and escape the specter of No Deal looming over Parliament for MPs to actually be pushed at that a final moment and it's usually days before to actually do something about it do something about a deal No Deal is not an end in itself you've got to have a situated to leaving I make no bones about this I'm very committed to leaving and leaving with the deal stopping and no deal stopping a process isn't enough that's why we have to be committed to achieving something and that's where I think Jeremy Hunt scores over Boris Johnson because he is as I was voted to remain but is now committed to leaving a plan to do so and the engagement with European Union so make sure it happens simply stopping things the Labour Party can't make up its mind the remain position of the Lib Dems is clear isn't enough it won't help Britain going forward it is because what we are offering is whatever this deal what what in what form with a tweak that Boris Johnson will say it's a brand new deal and actually it's a paper a big deal fine actually let it be but that still doesn't have the votes because that was proven the last time around so unless you suddenly have the Tory Party genuinely coming together over this realise I actually don't think the votes are there and you know Brecon and radishes coming up then the job decreasing potentially so we are going to end up where we were before and the only way out will be a ratification referendum with the option to the school for negotiations then I think the votes are that's what will you do what will you do if if if Boris Johnson becomes Prime Minister and his government does get to the stage where No Deal is now the default option would you back a no-confidence motion to stop it I find it very difficult to do that there simply because I think there is a great danger to the United Kingdom in a general election which would produce either a hung parliament or a possibility of a coalition led by Jeremy Corbyn that I think would do significant damage I don't believe we'll get there Jeremy Hunt because I understand that is there a way of preventing No Deal voting in a no-confidence motion that you just bring that doesn't pretty deal Corbin getting it getting a deal that's what does it and if colleagues will realize the risks that they would take if they are presented with the opportunity of a deal and I think I think Jeremy Hunt will be very determined to get something to bring to colleagues if there is a greater risk from revoke referendum general election or anything else rather than voting for an agreement and moving forward I think colleagues might recognize with all the effort that's been put in by a new prime minister take the chance let me have another go at it because we've had Boris Johnson saying it's do or die it's October the 31st he is the front-runner he has the support for both shutting down Parliament from Tory grassroots many of them and pushing through that No Deal what are you going to do to stop it what can you do I don't believe there is support empowerment about grassroots which means he wins you appreciate he wins but you can't do something in Parliament because of what the grassroots are simply saying once they've got happen now you've got to have the votes in Parliament to do this I'm very clear I don't think I don't think either candidate would go through the constitutional difficulty of perogy I'd like to hear it from Boris Johnson I think there are both committed to getting an agreement and I think when they offer that to colleagues and colleagues see the dangers are not getting the agreement I think there is a you think you just said Boris Johnson's gonna win because of his pulling the grassroots well I'm not conceded that at all I'm saying he'd say if either wins I think their first priority will be to get a deal but I would like to hear Boris Johnson right probation because he's not done so let's move on to the diplomatic few Rory was not very diplomatic of course over the future of Sir Kim Derek a man in Washington let's listen to this from the debate would you like to keep him beyond Christmas when he's normally retired well he's due to retire until Christmas and I will certainly keep him until after due to retire you say you're gonna keep him in two you wouldn't keep him beyond he wouldn't extend his term Allison I will keep him until he's due to retire and I think we'd like to know if you would well I I'm not going to be so presumptuous as to I will say what I will say is I and I alone will decide who takes important and politically sensitive jobs such as the UK ambassador to the US he's trying to Kim Derrick to the wall suddenly no I told he was very clear that if he is Prime Minister he and he alone will take decisions on who our ambassadors are who represents guaranteed keeps or Kim Derrick in post and he refused to answer it was a clear about it number ten had been clear back to the prime minister will be appearing and Prime Minister questions shortly and I'm sure she'll be clear about it why he's not being clear about is because he's clearly decided it's more important for him a Boris Johnson administration to quite frankly be the in the lap of Donald Trump and to maintain that relationship rather than standing up for the country and standing up for one of our tops of a sizing up the country's actually having the best possible relationship with the United States do that knighted States while at the same time saying that you are maintaining your your right and your responsibility to defend one of your top civil service who can't speak up is the person who will meet the decision on who our ambassadors are cool feedback Kim Derrick staying in post well I think he saw that quite clearly net to be the he said Prime Minister he will decide to rip that's not the answer the question my question to you is will he point balls will he keep the Ambassador in Washington in post until he steps down that's a decision for Jeremy Hunt and the Prime Minister so that's my decision Boris Johnson if Boris Johnson becomes Prime Minister will SiC him Derek stay in post the question if that's Boris Johnson will be the person no one else will decide to our ambassadors are who represents the rus making the met Russ making the best effort here but it's very clear and Boris Johnson was asked a question about the situation now an ambassador under attack and under extraordinary attack from the leading politician in the country way he's where his oh the president United States I don't care it's the elect it's the elected leader of any country and our ally in the u.s. our ambassador has the responsibility to report honestly which he has done it doesn't matter who the ruler is but what you're saying is because of the relationship with the United States it is giving an effective veto to the president the United States and Boris haven't had an opportunity to say no he won't do that and the signal would have gone out to everyone who works for us abroad all these hard-working people all over the world you fall into trouble hang on I will come on there he's been east you know I've seen the newspapers just like you have and then meet my judgment beast Saunders but come on there has been he seriously who's the government and that is not it's not good for United Kingdom that's not good what's not good for trust and relationship inertia we should be looking and focusing on that this person needs to be brought to task and should face charges for what the others I'm sure we can all agree we can all agree on that but what we don't seem to be able to agree on is there an ambassador in difficulty for doing his job deserves the backing of the administration in the United Kingdom the backing of the Prime Minister the backing of the foreign secretary and the backing of those who would seek to be Prime Minister and that did not Alastor there is a question you said you don't care who the individual under stand that but you don't you how much value Jewish based on the relationship to the United States and Boris Johnson said that this is a politically sensitive appointment and we'll come to Ross with his response to that but politically sensitive because in a post brexit world the UK wants to do a free trade agreement with the United States we're gonna need to work with Donald Trump so can you understand the cautiousness perhaps that Boris Johnson was responding to those questions about Kim Derrick I can understand the need for a very good relationship with the United States which is very broad and very deep and that relationship has been put under pressure firstly by the Lee class is absolutely right the leak has been terrible but secondly by the way in which the president has responded to that leak and assualt to put pressure on the ambassador and therefore on the prime minister at the Foreign Secretary to to question his position and his acceptability that I think is not right what the United Kingdom should be clear about is that the Ambassador has the full authority of the United Kingdom is supported and that that is the basis of a future relationship with the United States we choose our ambassadors they choose theirs they've all got a responsibility of honesty and that's how the relationship is whether it's future trade relationship as security or anything else if it is politically sensitive the role of who is the ambassador in Washington should it be a more political appointment in the future I wouldn't want to politicize those were meant to be representing us abroad I don't think that's right and and I don't think we should within the u.s. model were political appointees and I made ambassador something that would be very helpful at all and but we do have to make sure an Alice was right I mean Alice was a great diplomat and in the follow he knows exactly how it works and you do have to have that and free and accessible information and honest information from your ambassadors but I do think that what has happened is obviously going to fit the trust and relationship we have with the US right but I do think it's made it worse and I've been to Washington and I've met with him Public Accounts Committee went out there we also spoke to the negotiators in America about what the shape of the deal and all sorts going to look like and actually the relationship that he had and his team had with the Trump administration was actually a very good working relationship and the nature of those cables and I grew up in a diplomatic family for the whole of my life it is entirely right that the ambassador is able to speak openly frankly with back home so that we here can make a proper assessment of what trans like for him to be describing Trump in terms that frankly are far less than what we say here doesn't surprise me at all but it's made it worse that Boris Johnson has not said he would keep him that he hasn't given him his full backing as the front-runner because actually that has fuelled Trump to want to go after the blood and all I think all we need now is for Boris Johnson say we find him draw a line under it and they can rebuild that relationship it doesn't look as if he's going to do that instead playing up the strong relationship that he has with the White House which will be invisible support right now which is the Tory grassroots what they care about is a free trade deal with the US and you need in your knee Trump one side on that and I don't think there's actually a lot of any impact on the outcome of the leadership contest and I think Boris Johnson lose that hipper thank you very much for being here and the same to you Ross the two of you are staying here in the studio we're going to talk about labor and the issue of anti-semitism let's welcome Wes treating Labour MP where's the Piers Lautenberg Lord ours I and Lord David trees man have resigned the Labour whip over anti-semitism what's your response I'm to be honest I'm absolutely gutted I mean I know David treatment very well worked with him when he was Minister for students in the last Labour government he's a former general secretary of the Labour Party the two peers you've left alongside him are both distinguished both in their own fields but also their contribution to the Labour benches in the House of Lords and I just wonder how much it will take how much more it will take how many more resignations it will take for Labour's leadership to finally take the issue of anti-semitism seriously you know this evening panoramas have a documentary airing I don't know what's in it I don't know if it's any good because I haven't seen it and yet what we've got is a full spin operation sanctioned by the Labour leadership in operation trying to discredit and D legitimize a program they haven't seen I don't need a panorama documentary to tell me about anti-semitism in the labour party I've lived through this issue in the last four years the poor administration of cases the overly lenient decisions made in cases that have been seen the degree of political interference in cases and the mealy-mouthed responses to concerns from people right across the Jewish community including leading Jewish representative bodies and then to add insult to injury the attempt to discredit and smear people who raised concerns about anti-semitism it's all a smear they say I think this is you know absolutely a terrible place for a loud party to be in we are subject to an EHR C investigation we're only the second political party in British history to be subject to such an investigation into institutional racism the first was the first was the BNP I hear you people may listen to you and hear everything that you have said about your own party why are you still there because I haven't given up on the Labor Party it's 100-year history there the fact that I've got plenty of people in the parliamentary Labour Party within my own constituency Labour Party and Beyond who are prepared to wrestle the Labour Party back in terms of its commitment to equality in in in insincere forms and I have to say to people in and around the leadership of the Labour Party particularly those who I think do recognize that there's a problem what actually are you going to do it's all very well people like me appearing on programs like yours while Corbin Easter's swamped my timeline saying well he would say that he's not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn I'd like to know what those decent members of the Shadow Cabinet are going to say about this I'd like to know what decent members of the the parliamentary party what do you say then when the Labour Party has just put out a statement saying it completely rejects what it calls the offensive and false claims made by the three peers who have resigned the Labour whip I mean what can you say to that I think it's contemptuous actually and let me and as is a test actually four members of Shadow Cabinet who do broadcast today and for Jeremy Corbyn in particular if the Labour Party is genuinely sir it's about tackling anti-semitism if it believes it has nothing to hide why won't it cancel immediately the obligations under noticed non-disclosure agreements it's imposed on former members of the compliance unit who've dealt in-depth with anti-semitism cases remove those gagging orders set them free to speak publicly and truthfully about their experience will they do that or is it actually the case that there's something rotten in the state of Denmark all right where's stay with us I want to welcome on to the studio into the studio I should say Andy McDonald who shadow Transport and Camilla Dominique from The Telegraph Andy McDonald listening to Wes treating the panorama program that he's talking about by the BBC poses the question is Labor anti-semitic is it an anti-semitic party the answer from law treatment and the two other pieces yes it is well the answer from me is no it is not people come into the Labour Party to fight discrimination and racism there is an issue of anti-semitism abroad in our society and it does rear its head in the Labor Party in a very very small number of cases but it does more than rear its head if you've got people leaving like the three peers we've talked about you've had a string of MPs leave the party partly because of anti-semitism that they say is absolutely rife this issue has gone on for three years you've failed to deal with it is it as Tony Blair says that you just can't see anti-semitism because you don't know what it is oh no I totally and utterly reject that I also reject the the the most heinous allegation put at the door of Jeremy Corbyn that he is anti-semitic why is it he man because Jeremy has devoted his entire life to fighting racism and standing up against unjust you know what twenty Semitism is as Tony Blair said Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-semite who doesn't know that he is one some of the remarks are not explicable in any other way I'm afraid well well that is sad you must be specific about that he must back that up and so what is it that Jeremy Corbyn has said that is that it is anti-semitic or shows no understanding of it he has done he of late he's really forced his position which has been echoed in the EDM that he signed resisting anti-semitism through through through time with articles with videos with Lester members to initiating a process within the Labour Party instructing Jennie Formby to make great progress history has why she has speeded up the process fourfold since she came into office we've doubled the size of the staff we've increased the number of panels which have independent council who sit with them so there's a great deal that has been done a great deal more has to be done but the charge of anti-semitism I wholeheartedly reject do you think you need outside help do you think you need outside help as a Labour Party if you fail to deal with it would you say you have you say it's a small number of cases is it time to solicit outside help you've already got the equalities Commission investigating the party it's only the second time they've done that with a political party is it time to say we can't deal with it we can't we failed well they need help eh RC are engaged and let's have them look at these processes and if we can get their guidance to improve further I welcome that I know and I want to embrace that let me pick up West ratings point because you said if you are genuinely committed to rooting out anti-semitism and admitting and admitting the breadth of the problem as so many of your members and members of parliament and peers see it why is it that some of the people who've spoken out in the panorama programme they've broken non-disclosure agreements to speak out why are they facing potential legal acts what are the non-disclosure agreements cover well they cover you have said yourselves that you want to get rid of NDA's legislating to prevent making any contractual clauses which stop disclosure of future discrimination harassment or victimization Labour's policies to stop them these people are speaking out about discrimination point in time no they're talking about breaches of data that is why people are being questioned it's not in – if it wants to speak about improper conduct harassment or bullying do it not a pleasure agreement clear the Labour Party is against non-disclosure agreement it's going to legislate against them if you cut there are some NDA's that are okay no eating let me let me clarify it for you then because the non-disclosure agreements we're talking about which seek to ban people from speaking out and whistle blows yeah that is complete that's what these people are doing they are speaking out what they've seen within the labor power that is not true how do you know because you know what they're speaking about because I know the issues that are large in this case I've informed the panorama program do you know what they're speaking out about well let me let me just give you some clues as to what I suspect is going to be in there and I'm telling you that we do not disclose we are not against people whistle blowing that's the exact opposite gdpr and they're part with data illegally we're duty-bound because some of those people who've been named in those disclosures are seeking legal action against the party for that breach of that legislation so it's perfectly proper disclosure agreements are aren't you I've just told you Joe you are so why are you and why have you signed up lawyers car to rock we can show our viewers and our guests the letter from Carter rock lawyers where they threaten people former employees including the ones who have spoken to the BBC Panorama programme saying you are subject to an enduring obligation to keep confidential or confidential information the whole point about being a gossip blower is that you breach your non-disclosure agreement in order for the public interest to speak about what's truly going on let me respond to you because the substance of the Carter rock letter has got nothing to do with this Panorama programme it goes back to where prof. it's about breach of GDP our parting with people's data so nobody who's spoken to the Colorado Kroger is going to face any legal action I don't know that I don't know that right no one's going to face any legal action for breaching their non-disclosure agreements with the Labor Party so on the one hand you're against them except when it comes to protecting the labour party now that's an absolute you just said you're against non tree agreements and now you're saying except if it's protecting information within the label part and and all of us around the table know it's perfectly proper in contracts of employment where date you must protect the data that you come into contact with which is private and confidential people don't consent to that being published it's a wholly different matter if you are exposed to and understand that there's been issues of abuse or discrimination we want to enable people to come forward with those allegations and be treated seriously we're treating does that reassure you in terms of the differences between the support to get rid of non-disclosure agreements but not in this case no I didn't find anything at all reassuring about that appearance and I really think that actually people I think a decent people around the shadow cabinet are being put forward as for guys for something that is just simply indefensible the fact is the Labor Party could make it very clear that whistleblowing on anti-semitism has got the green light the good news is that people can whistle blow to the eh RC process they can compel the Labour Party current and former employees disclose all sorts of information pertinent to this investigation and I really believe that they should I am you know I I'm just you know uncharacteristic loss for words actually about the response of the Labour Party and its leadership to what's happening what we've just heard from Andy what we hear from too many decent minded people who generally have good conscience is on this issue what we've heard in the last four years has been completely appalling and unconscionable and I do think we have to ask some hard questions about what it is about jeremy corbyn's politics and style of leadership that has created conditions in which anti-semitism has been assured I can assure where's that they're all decent people were sitting around the shadow cabinet table they come to this in a spirit of real seriousness and a determination to root out anti-semitism and resolve this issue and that is our focus that's our intention and we shall never shift from it and I just wish that that could be acknowledged at times under everybody coalesces around that objective as I know everybody wants to do rather than being do selected by some of these ancillary matters that quite frankly I'm not helping us we're treating thank you very much for joining us you worried about the BBC Panorama programme tonight Jenna we'll see what it says are you worried about what it might say or not what I'm worried about its objectivity because the the journalists concerned has got has got form and he's but he's written articles which has been very have been scurrilous in his attack upon Jeremy Corbyn over the years he's got what was the one who did with that was well is it the medias but I'm gonna welcome in Lawrenceburg BBC's political editor huge issue and activity impartiality our cross laws of course I'm here to defend seven he would stand up himself a big test of his leadership and I will find it extraordinary if we don't get tomorrow and there are hosts of people calling for him to go alright we're going to move on to Labour's brexit position ah we're just hearing news that circum Derek has resigned now we've discussed this in full earlier on in the program that has obviously just come to our attention what's your response well that is what I was about to say I thought was about to happen or had just happened and I would just say also I haven't seen no official confirmation of that yet so let's just exactly how that news has emerged and from where crucially I think we understand that is what's going on and I think the last 48 hours have put him in an increasingly untenable situation but it is a remarkable event nonetheless and you can't just explain this away by saying oh well it all got terribly difficult so comes Eric and whether people like him or not whether they agree with him or not he is somebody who over the years has been one of the most respected UK independent diplomats acting on the country's behalf effectively officially of course actually on Her Majesty's behalf not you know somebody who is a political appointee which is completely different to how other countries and for him to be forced out early by being dragged into a political route that was started by a leak stirred up by the American president and then discussed by the two candidates who will be one of whom will be Prime Minister in a fortnight's time when of them ostensibly failed to back him is a major major event in this country well we you know traditionally we've had a real separation between politics and diplomacy well this has come from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office so it has been confirmed and the quote from Sir Kim Derek since the leak of official documents from this embassy there has been a great deal of speculation surrounding my position and the duration of my remaining term as ambassador I want to put an end to that speculation the current situation is making it impossible for me to carry out my role as I would like your response I think that says a huge amount about the man who has recognized the difficulty of the situation he's taken it upon himself he was rightly backed by the Prime Minister in the Foreign Secretary but plainly the intervention of the president the United States the way in which he has done it has given a man of great honor and principle the sense that in order to for the United Kingdom to further its relationship properly with the United States he can't be there I think that speaks of volumes about so many other people involved in this I know Kim Derek he's been a friend for a long time in its diplomatic posts I think this is a very very sad moment for the United Kingdom and the person who emerges with honor for this is Kim Daren Boris Johnson couldn't quite bring himself to give him full support yesterday in the debate well I think there was the notion that if Boris Johnson does become the next prime minister as is suggested he will and that he wouldn't have kept him in place anyway or he would have waited for him to retire I think after Christmas so as Alastair has said here he's been the ultimate diplomat really because he has helped the government avoid any allegation that they are in some way Trump's poodle by acting on his Twitter outrage rather than protecting their own man in Washington in terms though of the relationship the future relationship between whoever becomes prime minister and the United States and the president what does this do to that because if there was a hostile leak you know great scoop journalist but a hostile League against one of our most senior diplomats that was then stirred up by President Trump and to many people it would just seem that Trump had a tantrum and then the UK then was forced to act in response now late on Tuesday night the moment there's so much news around yes what day late on Monday night in fact a very senior member of the government said to me there is no way that we would ever move away from the convention of us picking our own representatives around the world we will not let it happen in another country chooses who represents our country abroad now that's a fundamental principle this affair suggests that maybe that principle might not be adhered to in future and that's a very serious you know it's one thing to what all the conventions have gone out of the window this is a really serious convention well and Boris John thinking if the leaking has led to this other people will be watching who is the next ambassador who might be put at risk with a malicious list at risk leaked if they know that the British government is not going to back them up the foreign sector was absolutely right to back him to the hilt and I wish that course have been followed by Andy yeah I think I was absolutely right Tim Derek has done the honorable thing and we you know and he does speak to his character what has happened is the president United staes as thick dated who our ambassador is and that really is should worrying and awareness and where does this end we've got a brilliant diplomatic so Allison knows it's better than I do but we're so proud of what they do for us and the way that they function but for them to be undermined in this way I think is a really dangerous step right and I hope I'm wrong is what Boris Johnson as Prime Minister could bring which is Baikal towing to people like Trump and not backing Kim Dirac in the way that he should have done I think that left opened the door for why we've descended into the situation we are now he did it with Nazanin Zagora Ratcliffe we've got another now and came down well who's coming I'll ask Camilla that in a moment if we have time for promises questions a practical question though Lord just Teresa may appoint the next ambassador because there is a hiatus and this is an important post where there is an idea I think the answer is we just don't know yet I mean I I would imagine that she would wait I mean if he's saying he's resigned it's unlikely that he would pack his bags let the ambassador's mansion in Washington and be out tomorrow with pictures arriving this afternoon a sense would be I mean clearly it's a most important post in any circumstances it would be a matter of long consideration about who would be appropriate I don't think the wheels could possibly move that quickly and it probably wouldn't be right to do so it'll be a perfectly effective depth that adds a little bit of drama to the proceedings there isn't enough well let's have some more because it has been mooted that sir Mark said will was being lined up for that role he has courted Chris but criticism because of his jus role that he acts as chief cabinet secretary and also national security adviser not particularly popular with some swaths of the Tory Party equally I understand journalistically more revelations are planning to be forthcoming in the mail on Sunday which could have also made up because the King Derek's mind oh well that's interesting you can't tell us any more no I don't work for mellow Sunday but I imagine there's a part to because any good journalist has well we'll leave that hanging over to Prime Minister's Questions here we are Minister thank you mr. speaker mr. speaker this morning I have spoken to sue kim Derek I have told him that it is a matter of great regret that he has felt it necessary to leave his position [Applause] the the whole cabinet rightly gave its full support to sukira on Tuesday so Kim has given sir Kim has given a lifetime of service to the United Kingdom and we owe him an enormous debt of gratitude good government depends on public servants being able to give full and frank advice I want all our public servants to have the confidence to be able to do that and I hope the house will reflect on the importance of defending our values and principles particularly when they are under pressure mr. speaker the whole house mr. speaker the whole house will want to join me in sending our deepest sympathies to the family and friends of Tammy Minshall the student paramedic who was killed in a traffic accident last week whilst on duty this is a reminder of the members of all our emergency services who risk their lives each day on our behalf mr. speaker this morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others in addition to my duties in this house I shall have further such meetings later today so build I first like to associate myself with the comments regarding the tragic accident last week I am pleased see the Prime Minister is wearing green I hope it is not merely a green wash as I welcome the fact that government legislate for nets here by 2050 but before they did when the Targa's week the committee for climate change already reported they were going to miss their target and today they said that the policy ambition implementation now fall well short of what is required target's helpful but what we need is policies that actually deliver clearly the promise wants to leave a climate legacy so will she bring forward the ban on diesel and petrol cars from 2040 to 2030 and when will she end position two cheap onshore wind power Prime Minister well can I say to the Honorable gentleman that in fact we have an excellent record in relation to our dealing with climate change as a government we have been we have outperformed on our first and second carbon budgets from 2008 2017 we're on track to meet the third and the latest projections suggest we're on track to deliver over 90% of our required performance for the fourth and fifth carbon budgets and we are the first major economy to legislate for net zero emissions by 2050 the UK is leading the world on the on climate change I want to see other countries following our example have one of the most extensive rail networks in the world we're now people in stoke-on-trent have to rely on their cars with the Prime Minister join me in my petition to reopen Mir station in my constituency as the next step to improving our local transport well can I say to my honourable friend I know he's been campaigning on this issue wit for some time I know who's met ministers to discuss this I understand that this is in an area that's about to benefit from refurbish modern trains on the crew to Derby line from December of this year as part of the new East Midlands railway franchise in relation to the station at Mir the Department for Transport will have heard Mike Oliver friends call to reopen the station and I know that he will continue to campaign on behalf of all his constituents Jeremy Corbyn Thank You mr. Speaker I too regret the resignation of circum Derek I think the comments made about him were beyond unfair and wrong I think he's given honorable and good service and he should be thanked for it and I think the whole house should join together in deeply regretting the feeling that he's obviously got that he must resign at this moment I also joined the Prime Minister in passing and dances to the family of Terry Winchell who died as part of our emergency services giving service to people mr. speaker many people welcomed the powerful points the Prime Minister made when she was first appointed about burning in justices in Britain does she agree with me that access to justice is vital in order to tackle burning in justices but there are many burning in justices that can be cuckold in a variety of ways and that is the action that I have taken not just as prime set Earth prime minister but also at Home Secretary and I'll give him one example the race disparity audit which shines a light on inequality in public services a race disparity audit which shines a light on inequality in public services in a navy is enabling us to put into place action that helps to ensure that people across this country whatever their background whatever their background will ensure that they have access to the public services they need this year marks the 70th anniversary of the legal aid and advice Act that Act introduced by the post-war Labour government gave all people access to justice not just the rich and was an essential pillar of a welfare state and a decent society the Tory Lib Dem coalition slashed legal aid in 2013 and the results are clearly very unfair the number of law centres and other not-for-profit legal aid providers has more than haft there are now legal aid deserts across the whole country does the Prime Minister think that has helped or hindered the fight against burning injustice administer the points that I was making to the right honourable gentleman that he seems to fail to recognize is that is that the whole question of burning in justices is not about it's not about just access to the legal system the question of dealing with burning it's all very well members of the opposition benches from shouting about this if the Labor Party actually really cared about burning in justices they'd have done a darn sight more when they were empowered mr. speaker some people have very short memories it was the Tory – right okay it's alright it's okay the Tory Lib Dem coalition cuts legal aid but also brought in fees for employment tribunals the then Minister for employment relations the Honourable member for Eastern Partnership piloted that through the house but since that time my union unison took the government to court in one and as a result employment fees were cancelled the cuts to legal aid affect people mr. speaker like Marcus like Marcus a 71 year old on pension credits a lease holder who is threatened with being evicted and he says and I quote I've paid taxes and national insurance all my life how is it right that I'm being bullied and threatened with homelessness the state won't protect me he goes on to say I've been working to toe a.m. every night for the past six months collecting evidence I've got no idea if I've prepared my evidence correctly doesn't Marcus trying to save his own home deserve legal aid to get proper representation in a court and be fairly heard obviously I reckon recognize the concerns that Marcus has about taking his taking his case but the right honorable gentle might reflect on the fact that a quarter of the Ministry of Justices budget is spent on legal aid we spent 1.6 billion pounds on legal aid last year we're committing to ensuring that people can access the help they need into the future but that is only one part of the picture we've published a plan for legal support to maintain and improve access to support for those in need and we're conducting a fundamental review of criminal legal aid fee schemes which will consider criminal legal aid throughout the lifecycle of a criminal case so where are aspects of this issue that we are indeed looking at but I think it is important it is important that we ensure that we are careful with the provisions that we make for legal aid and as I say 1/4 of the Ministry of Justice budget is spent on legal aid Jeremy Gorman mr. speaker just so everyone's aware of it labor is committed to restoring legal aid funding for family law for family law for housing for benefit Appeals for judicial review preparation for inquests and real real action on immigration cases and as we announced yesterday we will end the leasehold scandal the Department of Work and Pensions is failing disabled people the Ministry of Justice spent tens of millions of pounds each year defending appeals over two-thirds of which were won by the claimants rather than spending millions defending incorrect and often immoral decisions wouldn't that money have been better used increasing poverty level benefits in providing legal aid to disabled people wrongly denied their basic dignity right honorable gentleman what this government has done for disabled people we are committed to tackling the injustice is that are facing disabled people so everyone can go as far as their talents will take them are spending on support for disabled people and people with health conditions is at a record high we are seeing many more people not over 900,000 more disabled people in work as a result of what this government has done but if the right honourable gentleman is really interested in tackling in justices then the biggest injustice he should tackle is in his own labour party and deal with [Applause] mr. speaker my party is totally committed to eliminating racism in any form anti-semitism and while she is about the lecturing how about the investigation into his llama phobia in her own party otter mr. Bao II you are as noisy as your illustrious late namesake David Bowie but sadly nothing like as melodic my dear chap Jeremy Corbyn a mr. speaker one lecture she might not want to take from me but she might care to listen to what the United Nations said when they and I quote condemned the UK government for its grave and systemic violations of the rights of disabled people the Windrush scandal has resulted in the government having to allocate 200 million pounds in compensation to people wrongly deported from this country denied services and their lives totally pulled apart people have given their life to this country and our services does the Prime Minister think that scandal would have happened if legal aid had not been slashed by the government so many of those people were denied any representation in court well the right honorable Gentiles thing rather more carefully about his arguments let's look about the issue of people in the wind rust generation I've said I've apologized what happened to people in the wind rest generation I'd be very clear I'd be very clear that they are British they are here they have a right to be here and these should not have happened we apologize the mistakes that have been made but he raises questions about people raises issues about people who were incorrectly deported the initial historical review has found that there around eleven thousand eight hundred tensions and removals which they looked at they identified 18 people who were most likely to have been wrongly deported or removed of those six were removed or detained under the last labor the way he talks you would think he was a man of principle but what do we actually see from him labor policy is to ban non-disclosure agreements but his staff has to sign them he was an anti-racist now he ignores anti-semitism he's been a euro skeptic all his life now he backs romaine he's truly living up to the words of Marx those are my principles and if you don't like them I've got others [Applause] I know I know the right honourable gentleman scheme to get to despatch-box when the main marks is I was really going to point out to him those were the words not of Carl but of crowd show generally go incoming from the Prime Minister who created who created the hostile environment which brought about the Windrush scandal who ordered go-home vans who ordered go-home bands to drive around London who refuses to acknowledge Islamophobia in her own party and and whose party consorts with races and anti-semites in the European Parliament and sucks up to those governments across Europe we don't need those kind of lectures one legal aid firm mr. speaker one legal aid firm said we see we see more people more desperate and in more extreme need than they were five years ago there is no where to send them those people are invisible to the system this is a denial of people's basic rights the UN says legal aid cuts have overwhelmingly affected the poor and people with disabilities without equal access to justice there is no justice today in modern Britain millions are denied justice because they don't have the money isn't that a disgrace isn't that a burning injustice he may do his best to ignore the anti-semitism in his party but I think he should listen [Applause] I think he should listen to the words of the former Labour Party general secretary the noble Lord Lord reeseman who said we may one day be the party of anti-racism once again but it certainly isn't today he has asked questions about injustice let me tell him about an injustice it's an injustice when you force people are working hard day and night to earn an income for their family to pay more taxes because of a Labour Party economic policy in government but has led to the destruction of our economy what do we see from the neighbor party you earn more they want you to pay more tax you buy a home they want you to pay more tax you want to leave something to your children they want you to pay more tax Labor's 9 billion pound Family Tax labour used to have a slogan of education education education now it's just tax tax tax [Applause] mr. speaker Prime Minister I am a unionist with every fiber of my being to hear nicholas sturgeons colleagues wishing to real go through an independence referendum with out a section 30 order Italian public services in Scotland are mismanaged and needs that district with doors and economies that has stagnated and continually pursuing policies that cuts off the circulation of our United Kingdom at barrack and not because they're in the interests of Scotland so will the Prime Minister join with me to condemn this illegal referendum approach and push the SNP to prioritize the areas are actually in the interests of the people of Scotland my friend subsidy right the SMP promised people in Scotland in 2014 that the independence referendum was a once-in-a-generation vote now they're laying the foundation for another vote in just 18 months time the SNP often claim they stand up and claim it we're in this house that Scotland is being ignored it's being ignored by an SNP government obsessed with another referendum against the wishes of a clear majority of Scots people I agree with my honourable friend people in Scotland want a Scottish government that focuses on improving their schools on improving their health service on improving their economy not one that's obsessed by separation [Applause] Thank You mr. speaker and I must say every time the Prime Minister speaks in Scotland a vote goes up mr. speaker mr. speaker mr. speaker today mr. speaker today is 7 it's a Memorial Day and I trust to everyone in this house will want to recognize the unbelievable sacrifice that so many faced yesterday I met some of the survivors of genocide and we must do all we can to make sure that we call out the genocide deniers that we learn the lessons from man's inhumanity to man that we witnessed in the continent of Europe and never again should this happen in Europe or anywhere else can I join with the prime minister and her words to kim derek and it's a pity that the former foreign secretary the candidate for leadership in the tory party did not stand up for our leading diplomat in the united states yesterday and lastly mr. speaker can i also paid tribute to win earring who has a 90th birthday today the only parliamentarian to sit in this house in the scottish parliament and in the european parliament we remember the words of Winnie stop the world Scotland wants to get on mr. speaker Mark Carney has said that the UK economy does not appear to be growing Danny Blanchflower one of the few to predict the financial crisis in 2008 has said the clearly evidence suggests that the UK is already in recession mr. speaker the dark clouds of bricks that are with us well the Prime Minister continued to ignore all the warning signs of recession Minister I say to first of all can I say to the right honourable gentleman in relation to Schreiber Nitze I absolutely agree with him we we all must we hope every time we see a massacre of this sort we hope that humanity will learn from it sadly all too often we see that is not the case I was at the Western Balkan summit last Friday in Poland working with the countries of the Western Balkans encouraging them and working with them to find peaceful ways of working together so that we can ensure that those countries see political stability and prosperity for their people in the future the right honourable gentleman then talks about the state of the UK economy well I'm very pleased to see that we actually have the best record in the g7 in terms of growth we have the longest quarterly period of growth of any of the countries in the in the g7 we also I have to say to the right honourable gentleman we have record numbers of people in employment a record low in unemployment this is and investment in our economy this is an economy that is doing well but it could really take off and it would have done if the right honourable gentleman has actually voted for brexit and voted for the deal with perhaps we can look at the facts record food bank use and stern young tell us that the brexit bill so far for financial services companies our Lord is as much as four billion foreign investment projects into the UK have dropped 14 percent the lowest level in six years car production fell fifteen and a half percent in May the 12th straight month of decline Yuki retail sales have experienced their worst June on record the near stagnation of the services sector in June is one of the worst performances seen over the past decade we have the evidence Prime Minister her legacy will be driving the UK economy over the cliff and to another recession hasn't this Prime Minister sacrificed to jobs and livelihoods of people across the UK in order to please her breaks the tier backbenchers take no deal off the table and take positive action to restore confidence in the economy to blame for any recession while mine at the door of this brexit obsessed government that is incapable of doing the deed job about the car industry I'm sorry that in referencing a courage he didn't reference the fact that in the last week we've seen the announcement by Jaguar Land Rover that they're going to manufacture electric vehicles in Castle Bromwich say preserving 2,700 jobs at the plant we've also seen pmw announced they're going to manufacture the electric Mini in you know their oxide plant preserving 5,000 jobs in that in that plant the right honourable gentleman knows that he could have taken no deal off the table by voting for the deal but if he wants to talk about economic forecasts and the future of economies perhaps he should give a little more reflection on the fact that the forecasts for Scotland show that it will grow this economy will grow slower than the rest of the United Kingdom over the next four years under an SNP government mr. speaker crossword party work can be immensely beneficial especially when delivering on the people's priorities so will my Rajan friend agree with me now the excellent work our farm work and cares leave first work with the Bolton Council leadership which is now conservative to win it an award for a future high streets fund because we can all agree that our high streets are the keystone of our local communities I say to my honourable friend that I think the point he makes is an absolutely excellent one and what we have seen in the example he's quoted is the benefit of cross-party working this can be immensely good immensely positive for local communities I'm delighted to hear that Bolton councils bid for farmers town centre has been successful in progressing to the next phase of the future high streets fund he's right we believe in our high streets that's why we've created the high streets fund and this cross-party working by a conservative led Bolton council to show what can be achieved children young as seven are being groomed and exploited to commit claims such as placing Johnson save their bodies to move them across the country yeah are often treated as criminals and not victims it was also sad lack of support for them with two thirds of councils having no plan for tackling this kind of exploitation and just half collecting the data on those at risk if she wants to secure any legacy on tackling modern-day slavery will she had struck the Home Secretary to develop a cross-departmental started to tackle the specific despicable crime and end the criminalization of these vulnerable youngsters the Honourable gentleman that indeed we are continuing our work on tackling modern slavery I was pleased that the government responded yesterday to the independent review of the modern slavery Act and we have taken on board most of the majority of the recommendations from that independent review this includes of course looking at the independent child Guardians that we have created that got the concept that we created looking at how they can give the support the issue that he record 30 references of criminalization of those who have been forced to undertake criminal activities was actually addressed in the modern slavery Act when it was put through this house but we continue to look at what more we can to ensure we are bringing an end to this crime not just in the UK but internationally as well speaker due to extreme pressure on services across Cornwall leaders of our health and care services have declared a critical incident the pressure has impacted on the Royal Hospital in particular this is extremely worrying for all families across Cornwall who rely on Telesca will my right on a little friend assure me though she'll do everything she can to enable health ministers to support leaders in Cornwall to resolve this situation as soon as possible Oh can I say to my honourable friend the obvious is is a very important issue for her and for her constituents and we're aware of the issues at the Royal Cornwall Hospital we know the hospital is taking steps to rectify these of course last winter formal council was supported over two million pounds of additional funding to help alleviate the pressures on the innate local NHS trust but I can assure my honourable friend that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for health is going to meet MPs to discuss this matter and recognizes the importance of this issue for her constituents sandy Martin Thank You mr. speaker in the run-up to the 2010 general election the Conservatives in my constituency claims that no Children's Centres would close and yet within a matter of months they were closing them and downgrading those that remains now the Suffolk County Council is proposing to close half of those that remain leaving just for full-time children centres in Ipswich out of the original line so will the Prime Minister tell us what sort of guarantees the government can give for any future policies which they want the British people to believe obviously we recognize the importance of ensuring that children have access to high-quality care we've been putting an extra money in to social care including for children but it's also about the sort of services that the are delivered it's important for us that we have taken a number of steps to improve the facilities that are available to for looking after children in in communities where those children require that for example the standards we've set for social workers and we do see the number of children's services that are rated outstanding growing across the country I think that's important that's a government there's actually looking at the issues that matter to parents and matter to children Craig McKinley my right humble friend may be aware that live animal exports season out of Ramsgate port is shamefully in full swing with the further shipment due out tomorrow does my right hand girlfriend agree that long-distance live animal exports particularly across the channel to a an unknown future should not form part of any future post brexit agricultural policy when we can be free of single market strictures which treat animals as mere goods my friend that obviously he has raised in issues I know is of concern to a lot of people and we are committed to maintaining our high standards on animal animal welfare and food standards once we've left the European Union we will be replacing of course the EU Common Agricultural Policy and what we will be doing is enabling us by being outside of the European Union to take decisions for ourselves so we will be able to determine these I think that's a important and first step towards a better future for farming for our natural world but it is also important for us to be able to do that and maintain those high standards and quality standards for which we have a very good reputation across the world Karen Smith mr. speaker head teachers and parents in Bristol South tell me the lack of schools funding is impacting significantly on children with special educational needs in addition to its wider impact on teaching across schools both the Prime Minister's potential successors now acknowledge schools are underfunded and have promised more money would she agree with me that this welcome new funding should be targeted at our most vulnerable children we are already putting more money into our schools we're already putting more funding into special educational needs I recognise the importance of ensuring that special educational needs are properly catered for and that the needs of those children can be properly supported that's why I'm proud of the fact that we have been putting more money into a schools what is important of course for schools is also what standards of Education are provided within those schools and well the Honourable lady talks about teaching yes teaching is an important element of that and we thank all our teachers both in mainstream schools and in special educational needs schools for the work that they do day in and day out and I'm pleased that we are seeing improved standards in our schools and that means more young people whether they're in mainstream schools or with special educational needs having an opportunity to go go far in my Ben Bradlee not even European Union are profound from the loss of trust in our democracy and institutions to the economic impact of civil unrest come on Ryan your friend helped to dispel the myth peddled by some in this house that we could simply go back to the way things were and could she share what assessment government has made of these risks mr. Altman's I absolutely agree with him that I think it is imperative for this house to deliver on the vote of the British people in 2016 I've said that on many kage occasions standing at this despatch box and elsewhere I think it is important that we do that we could already have done that I'm sorry I'm going to return to the this theme but we could already have done that had we had this house supported the deal it will be up to my successor to find a way through this to get a majority in this Parliament but I've agree that it is important that we do deliver trust in politics by saying to people we gave you the choice you told us your decision we will now deliver on it just imagine mr. speaker boxes or motors in my innit my constituency in Ellesmere Port has a future if we can avoid crushing out of the EU without a deal but my constituents are very concerned to hear the Prime Minister's potential successes in recent weeks talk up the prospects of a No Deal brexit so will she tell them both in no uncertain terms they pursue that option they will consign thousands of jobs in my constituency and beyond to history the honourable gentleman could have voted to save jobs and [Applause] [Applause] it's no good Labour MPs trying to deny this they had the opportunity three times to vote to leave with a deal and three times they rejected it mrs. Theresa Villiers we are going to leave Prime Minister's Questions at this point after questions earlier on from Jeremy Corbyn the Labour leader because we're going to return to the dramatic news that just broke before pmq started which is that Sir Kim Derek ambassador now former British ambassador to the United States resigned and this obviously was as a result of his memos being leaked his members of out Donald Trump and the US administration and it seems according to his own statement that he felt it was the only responsible course was for him to step down and to allow the appointment of a new ambassador he said the current situation is making it impossible for me to carry out my role as I would like the debate of course last night between the two men who would like to be Conservative leader and prime minister also talked about the issue of Sikkim Derek let me show you this tweet from Sebastian Paine at the Financial Times who says Whitehall sources told the Financial Times that Sir Kim watched mr. Johnson in the televised debate last night Tuesday evening and saw that the next likely prime minister was someone who when the chips are down was willing to throw civil servants under the bus Laura Sir Kim was aware of the debate last night he watched he saw Boris Johnson fail to give him his direct backing and as a result of that he decided that his position was not possible to continue it's worth saying he was due to retire anyway and to move on in January and the Assumption until last night's debate was although this was all terribly awkward because he was going anyway well somehow people would sort of muddle through but the debate last night is what changed the dial for so Kim in his view of whether or not he could carry on and I think you know Boris Johnson hasn't even moved into number 10 yet the widely held assumption among the Conservative Party is that he will be the prime minister in a fortnight now but this is the first major act of a Premiership that is still hypothetical that was the chain of events an explosive hostile League against Sir Kim president Trump men visibly goes after our most senior diplomat our potential next Prime Minister fails to back him and then all of a sudden one of our ambassadors finds himself in an impossible position and I think it's just worth repeating just before we went to Prime Minister's Questions a senior member of the government said to me earlier this week no country would ever allow another country to changes to be forced to change its ambassador that is what just seems to have happened it's a big convention just broken was it a mistake but Boris Johnson not to come out whole heartedly and support the UK's man in Washington in that debate was it a mistake for him politically or just in general I mean I think it would have been really difficult because that probably would have been a lie I don't think he had any intention of keeping Derek on if he becomes Prime Minister because as that Ft tweet from sebastian indicates there is a perception among brexit ears of a lack of impartiality when it comes to civil servants Whitehall sources who may be Pro remain telling the pro remain ft in no uncertain terms that Boris Johnson is willing to quotes throw several servants under a bus it's no secret that Sir Kim is ardently pro-europe are there are concerns about the opinions he's expressed about the US president in these memos I think we can all agree that he deserves the privacy of having the memos kept private and in inquiries ongoing but there may be some in the Conservative Party and indeed Boris backers who think that it might not have been the most appropriate appointment that's the argument you know there's this talk about impartiality but you look at all of the rhetoric around a figure like for instance only Robbins and there's the suggestion that a lot of civil servants are anti brexit and by consequence anti Boris Alastair I think it's really dangerous stuff we've had this before when mrs. Thatcher became the prime minister people said oh she can't government because they've had so many years of labour that and that they're all anti Tory and then when she left office Tony Blair said one of the best mistakes the Labour government made was so many ministers believe they'd all become fact rights under missis under mrs. Thatcher and the civil service wasn't impartial the civil service is impartial this is dangerous stuff to start to say that there are conservative sources that believe some are are so pro-european that they would give a false judgement they would give unfair judgements they would stop doing their work because of their attachment to the European Union this is where politicians make crass mistakes and you start to get a civil service that says well if that's the way it's going to go we are going to have to dance politically to the tune of our our masters you will then change the nature of the independent British service and if there is any of my colleagues who think that they can move or should move civil stones that they believe are not as Breck City as they are they're making a serious mistake if there are some I suspect there may be but it's unwise it's unwise it's a classic mistake of people who come across those who don't have opinions that they share and say well because you feel like that you can't be doing your job properly how many simples firms do do you want to go through a test of civil servants to see how they voted saying about it being worrying I'm just merely saying that's the perception and even to have Whitehall sources so-called impartial Whitehall sources briefing this to the FT is in itself raising questions about your work briefing and an equally there's history isn't there because Boris Johnson was the former foreign secretary and came into criticism within the department let alone outside it which may question whether the judgments of some in that particular department when it comes to Boris Johnson are fair are these the long lasting implications though Laura when you look at this this discussion about the neutrality of the civil service one watching might say it's impossible to prove complete neutrality on every issue and removing or so Kim Derrick Robert resigning and being replaced by somebody who is more like or certainly more supportive the sort of policies in the United States he is also showing a lack of partiality I think there are few things to say here first off the referendum result in 2016 was a real shock to the political establishment to use that phrase and I think that's it they're kind of backdrop for a lot of the suspicions that arose on the breast attea side but when you talk to many Brett steers who've actually been in government – a man has nearly always men they say actually my officials were amazing they were excellent they were carrying out my instructions of course of being frustrations but the other thing about this debate and I think it's really important for our it is to understand this we need people get very upset about these kinds of things for all sorts of obvious political reasons but it gets ministers off the hook – you know a lot of the criticism that was directed at Olly Robbins time and time and time again by the guy working for Theresa May and acting on her instructions now in a time of political hostility on all sides it is not surprising that politicians on all stripes remember last week you know there was a story about Jeremy Corbyn they asked – did the civil servants towards him decide that it's an easy target to go after officials who can't talk back who are trying their best in often very different circumstances but can we say that there has never been an episode where ministers who've wanted to be radical have encountered really stiff resistance of course we can't just also just want to bring we've got some quotes from Jeremy Hunt has I've just got from his team who has of course is the current foreign secretary who stood up for us our kim derek in the debate last night he says i'm deeply saddened by so kim Daris decision he served his country with the utmost dedication and distinction but it's interesting he goes on to say i profoundly regret this episode has led him to resign he also says that it's outrageous that this has happened as a product of a leak so Patrick McLaughlin who's part of Jeremy hunts campaign but interestingly says it's unedifying to see someone who wants to be Prime Minister failing to stand up for hard-working civil servants who've done nothing wrong and I expect if Boris Johnson gets into number 10 this is going to be a theme isn't it this is going to be something that runs but I think we're in very very difficult territory here and it's the kind of convention we shouldn't have chuck it out of the window without a backward glance these things matter and relationships matter though don't they Alistair and when working with civil servants of course Minister give instructions to civil servants they are carrying out their duty but relationships matter and the relationship with the United States is critically important would it be better to have somebody who is more aligned at least with working with United it's not more aligned with the politics of Donald Trump but more aligned with working with the United States well Sydney what what Kim Derrick's sacrifice has done has created this opportunity for a consideration of who would be best in that role now in the United States and regardless of the circumstances which have been pretty terrible and obviously full square with the foreign secretary on this it does provide that opportunity to look at who would now be best someone with a political background some with the trade background some of the diplomatic background it is a prize diplomatic post but I'm sure there will be careful consideration of who would be the right person well let's have the full confidence let's get reaction from the Foreign Office itself let's talk to Alan Duncan a foreign office minister and your reaction to his resignation to kim derek upset and angry I'm very upset for Sir Kim who was a supreme diplomat and I'm angry that he has not been adequately supported at this end by the likes of Boris Johnson and of course I'm angry that a presidential sort of explosion if you like has seen him off when there was no no basis whatsoever for the scale of the anger we've seen coming out of the White House did he do the right thing so Kim Derek in the circumstances stepping down I think it's in the nature of our diplomats who have integrity honor and decency that they will follow their conscience and the conscience was that he is a dutiful man who felt that the president had made his job impossible so I think even if the Prime Minister has said I'm not going to accept your resignation he would have insisted not because he's done anything wrong but entirely out of a sense of duty to act in the long-term interests of this country in its relationships with the United States but the need for this is zero it's utterly unnecessary it's it's it's something I think which is really making MPs today very angry particularly because Boris Johnson a former foreign secretary and he thinks a future Prime Minister instead of supporting our diplomat in Washington basically dived for cover and threw him under the bus is that how you feel about what was said in that debate last night with Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt I most certainly do feel that and I can tell you I'm not the only one it's the main mood here in the House of Commons today I think the sort of respect held for Boris Johnson has taken a serious nosedive today right I mean if you are sir Kym Derek and he was watching that debate as our political editor has said I mean is it really the case that that sort of string of events was what precipitated his resignation not supported by whoever may become the future prime minister in Boris Johnson I don't know the precise moment that triggered it and in a way that's not the point I think the broader point that Boris Johnson at a time when actually he was being tested in many ways about whether he is a prime minister who would support his country or not failed in that test how difficult though is this complete diplomatic through Rory in the middle of a conservative leadership contest well I mean a lot of people will have voted of course may well be that a lot of people who voted will want to have changed their mind on the back of this but I think it's not so much the contest that matters as the result and what then is the composition reputation and conduct of the government that follows and I think that's being thrown into some disarray because instead of having a clean start in a mood of unity and sort of national confidence I'm afraid you know Boris Johnson probably our possibly our future prime minister looks a bit tawdry on the back of this I mean it looks to some people and it's been discussed in this studio that our foreign policy to some extent has been out sourced it's been left to the President of the United States to dictate what happens well certainly the appointment of an ambassador could be described as such but we must have the confidence of our own policy and you know if we end up disagreeing with the President of the United States because that's what we have to do in order to defend our national interests and the policies we think of right for us in the world then that's how it will have to be but just being a supplicant like this which seems to be the Boris Johnson attitude is not going to do us any good and it all it means is that we're going to be trampled over again and again and again in the future because ingratiating oneself to someone of this nature is not going to pay dividends now of course you are not a Boris Thompson supporter I think that's probably quite clear but yes thank you for my Sherlock Holmes detective skills but just to clarify obviously for the audience who do you think and who what sort of person should replace circum Derek well luckily we have a rich pool of talent of top diplomats and I believe it should be a diplomat and and not sums of a person who's never had any diplomatic experience because diplomacy and being ambassador in Washington is not just a matter of being chummy with the President of the United States it's about a whole range of duties and obligations throughout the whole country by the way not just Washington which involve all of the flow of information and policymaking and links into the United Nations and things like that which I think only a trained diplomat can properly do unless they are an exceptional person who's had very very extensive foreign policy experience who should appoint the next ambassador the Prime Minister either this one in the next two weeks or the next one who would you prefer to a point I think probably the sooner the better right so this prime is death row here in the studio as well I was just gonna ask you how worried don't you that the convention that no country could reject or have influence over who we choose as a nation that that precedent has just been broken by this well I think it could be seen that way but then we are dealing with a president who does not follow any of the normal rules of international diplomacy in the way he conducts his presidency but they are the most important country in the world and they are our closest allies so I think this is a very very unsettling and destabilizing course of events so I say again the president's fury was not in any way justified by the content of the documents that were leaked and it most certainly would be proven to be any less Justin much less justified by him looking at the whole of the last two years I mean it is an absurd outburst in response to an ambassador doing his job and I've no doubt that in the face of our brexit difficulties there are quite a lot of critical spicy telegrams going from London to Washington from the US Embassy here that's what we'd expect we wouldn't object to that just before you go and Alan was sick in Derrick's position untenable we've heard from Camilla hominy here in the studio that there are likely to be more allegations or more stories around him in his position and what he thought about the administration in the Sunday papers forgive me if I'm very tough on you for using the word allegation because that suggests wrongdoing the application of that word is utterly inappropriate in the case of circum Derek now you are right to say that maybe there are some more diplomatic telegrams which clearly have been illegally taken and leaked but again it is the job of an ambassador and his team to report faithfully back to London about what they thinks going on in the country and if they say you know there's been a row in the White House or something it doesn't mean that they're taking sides they are reporting so reports of facts and analyses are not necessarily a government's view or an ambassador's view they are perception all right and no one should be blamed for that Alan Duncan thank you very much for joining us I must introduce Philip a Whitford from the SNP I'm sorry that's been delayed because of the obviously the news about so Kim direct your thoughts well you know I think the job of civil servants and indeed diplomats is to report honestly to ministers and to report what they see from their experience you know the danger is we end up with a sort of McCarthyism of if you're not a dyed-in-the-wool brexit ear we're not having you and we already saw kind of Pro Europeans being cleared out shortly after the referendum which means there weren't enough people saying are you aware of this problem are you aware of the issues of drugs are you aware of European Medicines Agency and we can't afford to have that these people work for different governments they have an expertise whether in country or not and the issue here is that it was leaked absolutely as Alan says their job is to report oh my goodness this is going on you need to be prepared for it and I'm sure that telegrams going the other direction will be just as brutal around what's happening in the UK at the moment what is the focus at the moment in terms of the leak and who was behind it which obviously we've discussed all this week I mean if that is going to be now certainly what Theresa May would like to get to the bottom of and obviously the cabinet secretary – what should happen if they find out who was behind those leaks well I'm no more aware of the background to that work than any other member of parliament would be at the moment but my sense is that the the enormity of it is ink priest by what's happened and the the chain of contacts will be examined very carefully because there has been a deliberately designed to harm it has cost someone the job as well as the relationship how has all this come about and I think it already it would have been a very very top-level inquiry to find out what had happened there will be even greater urgency now from all and of course the implications are it may not just be this unless you find out where the leak is there could be others and others at risk about this earlier in the week and a senior figure told me that actually if there are very many people who could have accessed these details of diplomatic Telegraph's because there are a certain number of terminals that have access to confidential notes it would have been quite feasible for anybody who had access was one of those terminals I was told to sort of go back through the archive but they were very hopeful because of that that they will be able to find electronic fingerprints and work out who it is I just want to pick up briefly on something Alan Duncan said it may well be that those many MPs in the Conservative Party who are very hostile to Boris Johnson already for them this actually really ratchets up a lot of the problem Tom took a nap for example who's a you know up-and-coming very well respected politician and the Tory Party chair of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee has just said online leaders stand up for their men they encourage them when they try to sorry they encourage them to try and defend them when they fail I think we can understand the point he's trying to make there but Mr Johnson himself speaking to reporters this lunchtime asked about failing to stand up first sir Kim has said in my view it's wrong to drag civil servants into the political arena all right well apparently Boris Johnson has been out and about on a visit weather's been prompt in central London I mean picking up on what Alan Duncan said about Boris Johnson and about the fact that he felt some of those Tory grassroots members the ones who are voting in this contest may be thinking they should change their minds well I think Alan Junkin because of his position is it completely coalified to a comment on this and raised his concerns but it's also political point-scoring he doesn't like Boris Johnson he's never supported him and he's one of his fiercest critics so we should perhaps take his own partiality on the issue into account as far as members are concerned I think Tory's being Tory 75% would have already returned their ballot papers and actually the average Joe on the street might have an opinion about the appropriate nature of the language that Derek used whether or not they agree with the leaking of the language they may have felt that the language in itself wasn't particularly diplomatic and Alan Duncan spoke as a minister he spoke absolutely straightforward Alistair well he's worked with him they are know it doesn't really matter anyone anyone I think would have seen last night's events and seen a potential prime minister letting someone go very publicly I don't care and well Alan may have his reasons which I seem amply justified in terms of what has happened I work with Boris Johnson I'm not voting for him either I think he described absolutely accurately what had happened I think Boris Johnson now has more questions to answer them before would it affect the result I suppose it probably will it affect the prime minister to Bea's future you bet it will bass udders and diplomatic staff in other parts of the world in actually other parts of the world which are dangerous to have to have watched that debate last night and have the sense oh my goodness he doesn't have my back or how do you deal then with the United States how do you deal with the United States when you don't agree with everything or anything perhaps the president but you know how would you approach it what were you how would you treat President Trump there was a debate over whether she should have had the red carpet rolled out for him was that a mistake Teresa may was to some extent insulted and trampled upon by those tweets to in the way that she had dealt with him well obviously part of the problem came because she rushed off as soon as you became prime minister in in quite a supplicant position and that's really the position that the UK is ending up in it's absolutely not right to think of replacing circum Derek with someone who will just be going along with everything Trump says there are going to be difficult negotiations trade wise it will be important to have diplomatic staff in America who are willing to actually put the UK's side of things not just to suck up to Trump we've already had policy differences and they've been perfectly properly handled the United States has taken decisions in relation to the Middle East reducing support for Palestinian refugees making decisions on the future status of of Jerusalem with which the United Kingdom objected and said no this is wrong and it was handled perfectly properly so the fact that we disagree as Anand donkeyness said is is in the normal warp and weft of relationships and it's done a sensible level with decent language agreement to disagree all right hasn't indulged in where over the last couple of days was way beyond her you've counted us out of the program from all of us here bye-bye although I was a bit over a long slug wasn't it Jesus all right so next up is panorama consider that's from – well technically yesterday now and will be panorama next and then the last stream will be the day before yesterday's politics live I had to drop it because of the air the heads ahead so we had to bend that off and for with the started 15-20 minutes earlier I could have fitted both of them in well unfortunately yeah I didn't notice the time and so next up is a panorama so stick around and I think it should be on this stream thank book just keep refreshing my page you'll see eventually anyway so I'll be back in two or three minutes I need to let this one die first so stick around everyone watch panorama see in a second

Politics Live 12/07/2019



it's Friday it's 11:45 and we're live in Westminster joining me today Alan Mendoza from the Henry Jackson Society Allison Phillips editor of The Daily Mirror brexit Becker toss in added i/o and comedian Marcus Briggs stock so what's going on today that means fighting against the burning injustice but if you're born poor you will die on average nine years earlier than others three years on Teresa may set up an office for tackling in justices as she tries to secure a lasting legacy I think that no deal is a mistake it's a mistake because it will harm the economy two months ago cabinet minister amber rod was arguing against no deal now she says she accepts it might happen and how his social media changing the way young people engage with politics I actually always say you know if you want to talk to my office got me an email talk to me the only way to get and really as a Facebook message let's start with an interview with Theresa May in the Daily Mail where she talks about her Premiership and her legacy the question I want to put to all of you here is there anything she can do in her final few weeks to change people's perception of her Premiership Allen no in a word I mean what we're now doing I'm sorry okay no we are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic when the Titanic is already sunk I mean it is that late in the day here I think what's interesting about the interview though is is she comes across really well in in her vision in terms of what she wanted to do while being Prime Minister but it's too late it's at the end she needs to have articulated this and carried this through at a time when she was in the position to actually do so and I think the tragedy of her Premiership is that a woman with basically good instincts and with a vision for society that she wanted to carry through was derailed by brexit Alison can she change people's perceptions no I think agreeing with Alan it's just far far too late I mean when she was on the steps of Downing Street on the day that she became prime minister she did that speech which for a lot of people people like mirror readers on on the left of center thought what she's saying a lot of things we would like to hear however the actual evidence indicates she did absolutely nothing on ice things and now the idea of trying to lob it in and saying we need an office for sort of social injustice it's just too late in the day I mean it's this whole idea of like you know visions without action they're just daydreams what about your perception of Theresa May does it need changing no I think that she's done a fantastic job as as well as she could I think you know the breakfast situation isn't just down to the prime ministers Parliament also has a role to play in that and I think Parliament has let her down a number of times yes she's made some mistakes but I don't think that she has changed my in my opinion right was tossing right that actually she was the fall girl of sort of divisions if you like over brexit rather than her failure is impossible wasn't it she's she's like Sisyphus in the form of a dung beetle it's rolling they decorate wet ball of Poe up the same mountain every single day only to find someone waiting at the top to kick it back down again and then start the process again it wasn't deliverable for us so in terms of her legacy unless frankly unless she finishes on a song like a big musical number I think she won't be fondue romancing queen of course was an attorney Queen I think she should write something to sum everything up we'll look forward to that Alison let's talk about this office for tackling in justices that speech she made as you say on the steps of Downing Street did resonate with an awful lot of people could that do something positive in terms of sort of audit of government departments in the way they measure things like ethnicity gender socioeconomic background well it'll give you some data and I mean everyone's obsessed with data nowadays in that if they want to prove something in one way or another but as we know data can be used to prove whatever you choose it to do but the the difficulty we have with the injustice situation is all those figures that's like treating the symptoms what we need to do if we're really serious about the union justice is that you've got to look at the causes then you go back to things like housing and education and and those are things that that's very deep-rooted and and unless we have policies aimed at those which from the from the two candidates we've got the promis'd I don't see any of those things coming this way just on that though the data-driven approach is important I mean otherwise you're just you know looking at shibboleths and looking at ideology and going well I think this I think that you know I think it is too little too late in the sense if you wanted to make this a pillar of your premiership but this will hopefully set up a standard going forwards for others to go actually we can see the stats let's do something about no there is already an evidence enough there to show that the difficulties got in this country with inequality and also the stories are there the stories are there that that schools can't afford toilet paper that schools are closing a lunchtime on Friday because they cannot afford the teachers and the teaching assistants we know this is happening you can write as many graphs and spreadsheets as you like but it is still definitely happening you reference the two candidates both candidates have promised to spend more money on schools this is one of the key issues here terms that we're looking at they have done and they've also promised money for all sorts of things whether are we seeing any of that money or whether a gay and we all get sidelined into another brexit debacle well the magic money tree as people have sizes let's have a look at a bit of the interview with the mail where Theresa May says in hindsight she can see she should have done more to prevent what she describes as the polarization between the language of soft and hard brexit that divided the warring factions in parliament yes it's with hindsight should she have done more yes but I don't think she could I mean you know things like brexit means brexit were so unhelpful it's so enormous ly unhelpful because it's said absolutely nothing and played into an entire culture of sloganeering and all that kind of nonsense so I'm not really sure that she could I mean this is the most divisive issue as a comedian a most divisive issue I've ever tackled where we're when people disagree they've been incapable certainly of finding my material funny that's you know so I've had to find new approaches of doing let's not say all comedians have had the same issues with it but I think it's been impossible for her or did she exacerbate the situation with red lines brexit means brexit the the speech where she talked about people from somewhere and no where were those speeches that underline that divisive rhetoric I think you know I felt that she as Marcus said she didn't really have a choice I think you know the backbenchers were you know very forceful in their opinions and I felt that she had to come out quite strongly to show that she was going to actually actually going to leave I think unfortunately she didn't have the backing of a brexit EMPs I think that's what that's what let her down I mean is there always a problem with a remain as someone who voted remain then having to deliver brexit or was that just a sort of possibly but I think for too long it felt like her main consideration was holding the conservative pastor together not holding the country together if she come out the day after the referendum and said okay it's 52 48 it wasn't like 90 10 it was incredibly close so now let's all get around the table and try and work out a positive way of moving forward rather than actually all that language that you referenced there was what has actually made those divisions which were really bad before the referendum but they've made them an awful lot worse since I agree with you on on the language issues but I think you know you've given her all a bit of a free pass around here she's been in charge of our negotiating strategy for the past three years okay and she from day one determined it was gonna be her way and only her way okay even when she opened up to others it wasn't ever really a diverged from hers even the talk to Jeremy Corbyn were right are you gonna accept my way now now there are certain pivotal moments the election obviously of 2017 when it shouldn't have happened it did that was a disaster and I think the key moment was when the backstop first got put on to the table you remember how it happened the Europeans called her back and said oh by the way we're going to stick this thing called the backstop in now anyone with any knowledge of Ulster and Ulster politics in the context of the UK at that moment should have gone big red flag we cannot sign up to this but she went I'll sell it to the DUP and it was fine that was a big mistake how do we argued at that point for something different a year and a half before brexit I think we could have achieved more but she didn't and then she pushed pushed pushed that done bill you were talking about was simply the same dung ball over and over again yeah but she she I don't think she could do anything much about the backstop or about the the question of the border in Ireland because it is unsolvable you know whatever you choose to do whatever Europe ends up doing whatever the UK ends up doing as a result of this there are going to be people furiously angry whose experience is already very far removed from those of us who live in England particularly and right here in Westminster even more so they will be livid so I don't think there's a way of doing it well I stopped is just means some stage later on this will come up but it's gonna blow up when it does well it'll be interesting to see then how the next Prime Minister deals with that issue and leads us on to a preview really of the battle to come will continue over No Deal we've got current serving cabinet ministers indicating their return to the back benches to fight No Deal let's have a look at Greg Clark the business secretary of state it's evident he said that if you have the disruption that comes from a No Deal brexit there will be people that will lose their jobs it's many thousands of jobs everybody knows that Alan do you know that of course not and he doesn't know that either the reality is that we've had that economics is the only profession where you can be wrong more than right and still be called an expert when it comes down to it how many forecasts over history over time have been completely wrong in economic terms now the mistake I think when you look at projected economic outcomes is that you don't take into account how people actually respond to those the real-life response that happens and famously we were told vote House of the European Union the economy will tank straight away George Osborne's head at Mark Carney said it many other people said although they always argue of course we hadn't left at that point okay but no I take that repercussions would be in media what's happened is that people's expectations change things move I suspect there will be job losses in an adjustment period you know that's what happens when there is an adjustment in the economy but I think the idea we wouldn't be able to bounce back from that much quicker than that it's usually it's key really important that people don't go I suspect there will be job losses because what if it's you what if it's your family and what if where you live the job loss for you means that the community you live in and your family starts on a downward trajectory I'm a very privileged man I'm very very lucky but as a touring comedian I go all around the country and I see places where life is infinitely more difficult than my experience and job losses are not well these things happen for some families and eventually for some whole communities that is devastating so economists may not be able to accurately predict how many there will be or whatever but if there is a risk of some significant job losses we need to treat that so carefully and with such respect and caution and it mustn't be an over their issue I don't for a moment disagree that we have to look at this carefully and look at this you know in terms of how this works but at the same time I should point out I voted remain here for various reasons but I do think that policies of all kinds cause job losses okay if you want to avoid job losses sometimes just do nothing but the reality is sometimes you have to transition order to look at a change in this country in this case people are saying we have to deliver what the people voted in 2016 and this is one such option is the delivery or is it a negotiating tactic I mean that is where the questions are beginning to fall because if I show you amber rod the work comp engines secretary who was very much against No Deal she's backing Jeremy Hunt but she said both candidates have said that No Deal is part of the armoury in the negotiations going forward and I have accepted that the situation is that we are leaving by the end of October but it'd be so much better to get a deal what we really need is for everybody's effort to go in to try to get a deal she's accepting no deal as you say she's saying that she's accepting no deal and it clearly it's a negotiating tactic however if we're looking at Boris Johnson as an ex prime minister which most likely we are I think he is shown himself to be so cavalier with other people's livelihoods and with other people's futures with oh he was jobs but I wouldn't have any doubt at all if we ended up an ideal situation and it could be horrific doesn't absolutely agree I think yeah it is a reality that could happen that boat on some wall pushed us into an ideal situation he's bluffing I it's Boris you can never tell can you am I wrong in my understanding that there will be known renegotiation with Europe well is it I mean isn't this what's being tested to some extent by the two contenders they always claim despite the fact that Theresa May said repeatedly et is no deal it's better than a bad deal that somehow they didn't believe what they believe them but Europe want a deal as well don't they so you would like to hope that we can you know with a new prime minister that there was some way of getting talks back on again well it's looking that way the moment I think you want Boris John he's the person you want to go to Brussels because just as none of you knew where his position actually was if you walk into a negotiation you No you've got to keep everyone on their toes and you've got to make them blink first basically now let's be frank about it is Boris or Jeremy Hunt gonna be the person who makes other side blink well it's going to be Boris I still won't put anything past Boris Johnson to the point that remember this is the man that wrote two pieces or there's one remain and leave before he came out and decided which one he was gonna pick he is a man who would if it's gonna keep him in the job that he wants and it's gonna keep him in power he would do anything any seller anybody down the river but if your theory is correct okay and Boris is inherently pragmatic then you shouldn't be denigrating his like no and I can you have a prime minister where you've got so many questions chaos is often mistaken for pragmatism I don't think he knows I really don't think he's got a clue how he might deliver any version of this No Deal 31st of October later than that yeah I think he's chaotic and reports are I hear you too who knows whether they're right or not oh that he simply doesn't do enough work no to have the answers to these things he's quite lazy is very chaotic and he's easily distracted be a stand-up I mean all those things were said of him when he was London men he delivered a reforming and good administration using expertise around him okay this is the key new what has been the hallmark is that Boris sees himself as the chairman not the CEO he dictate strategy goes down that line he looks at the top and fiddles here and there but he allows experts in London he wasn't having to bring people into such a divisive issue as this and the question about who you bring in takes judgment from the middle and I wonder whether Boris Johnson has that what about his claim that the negotiation will be around a free trade agreement while the UK is in the so-called implementation period that that would be a much longer period of time and that your role in issues like the Irish backstop which will become irrelevant if a free trade agreement is actually settled it will there be an implementation period because I've heard it said many times that there one me unless they sign up to the divorce settlement first but you know our and is the EU minded to change its its position that will very much depend I think on what the tactics are to go to them one of the best things I've seen recently is the idea that you don't go to Brussels but you go instead to Dublin and you literally do her tail with the Irish whether you bribe them or threaten them one way or the other to get them into position with they're the ones who drop the opposition to the backstop and that enables Europeans to do so I think the amazing thing about this is three years in we are still no closer to actually understanding the final possibilities and we were three years ago right and then it brings us to this idea of what Parliament might do to thwart no deal being pursued Allyson Philip Hammond well I mean I was slightly sort of a god when I heard I was wandering without taking like packed lunches and then food to keep them going because so this is this idea that's come out today that he is so opposed the idea of pierogi in Parliament which of course would be trotting it down yeah calling for a constitutional thing to do that that they would take those dramatic as locking themselves in and there's an another attempt isn't there to with the with the Northern Ireland location that's gone through this week that they will have to keep reporting back on it so it gives them a reason to come back because this and dragging the Queen into the situation it is a horrific situation to get to a sitting that sounds like an interesting if perhaps desperate measure to prevent I think it's important I mean I've waited leave for then is a wanted polymer to take that control I know I don't think that it's it's fair or it's right that a Prime Minister which is provoked Parliament just because it's not going the way that he he wants it well Andrew Neil will be interviewing both the conservative leadership candidates that's Jeremy Hunt and Boris Johnson this evening at 7:00 p.m. on BBC one make sure you don't miss it let's move on to the Labour Party and talk about them because extraordinary open warfare really at the top of the party underlines what has been an open secret which is the party for many people is at civil war I'm going to show you part of the general secretary Jennie forum B's letter which is a response to the deputy leader Tom Watson where she says you consistently abuse your considerable platform to denigrate any progress that has been made in any individual that is involved in that reducing my reputation and publicly attacking me when you know that I'm undergoing chemotherapy and this is in response to the be see documentary panorama on anti-semitism in the Labor Party what do you make of that intervention from Jena Formby I mean this is just such a sad situation I think for anybody who's a Labour voter or a Labour member we've got that they are now sort of washing their dirty linen in very very publicly Jenny Formby obviously felt so enraged by what Tom Watson said the previous day that she hates she wanted to hit back publicly I can't really answer my things like this couldn't be done privately and if you've got people at the very top of your party who cannot communicate effectively privately on these issues you've got real problems and it's absolutely tragic when we all know that we've got all these breaks it concerns we were facing a node or exit what people on the left in this country really want is strong leadership and a sense that we are really trying to push in the same direction is there any way back from this for the for the Labour you see I can understand a lot of the frustrations from Jenny for me because she will feel that the party has taken a lot of action on anti-semitism and that may or may not be true that may not have done sufficient but it's more than what they've actually done now they need to root out anti-semitism properly then they need to be seen to be rooting out attention Semitism properly and then they need to get to such a point on what they've made such progress anti-semitism that no one either within their party without their party is able to throw it back at them right I mean Tom Watson though seems to imply that they are part of the problem as a part of the problem this is why they can't have private discussions the reason why they're unable to solve this privately is because as panorama evidence the leadership of the Labour Party is engaged in killing this issue often trying to not tackle it but instead hide it delete emails do private activities do anything they can it seems other than the obvious thing to do which is to expel the anti-semites and as a result they cannot sit quietly Labour MPs who feel passionately that a great national institution the Labour Party one or more to great political parties in this country which is being in government so many times has been destroyed by this virus of racial hatred that is being propagated by jeremy corbyn's office it's also the dismissive nature in which they party have handled this you know banding around the naught point naught 6 percent yeah it is ridiculous the kind of you know weakens I think they have I think they have made progress this is quite tragic but I think they have made progress in some areas but they haven't made enough progress and that they there's this sense of defensiveness around things that they're doing which is really unhelpful right we asked the Labour Party for an interview but no one was available there is a part of Jenny formas letter where she accuses Tom Watson the deputy party leader of being complicit in creating a perception that anti-semitism is more prevalent in the Labour Party than wider society should they be aiming for something higher the the Labour Party you're much higher in it just it won't do for people at the top of the labour party to be telling people how difficult this is for them if there are friends of mine people colleagues and all the rest who are specifically now frightened and frightened because they have said look I've experienced this firsthand and in declaring that they've experienced it firsthand the number of direct threats and passive threats and accusations immediately explosion and Tracy Ann Overman for example is going through daily hell and work well done her for being so courageous there are great many others but it won't do for the top of the Labor Party and the membership across the country to be looking at each other and going eh you all right because they're not concern and I think sometimes when you've done something wrong or something wrong has happened the only thing you can keep doing is say I'm sorry I'm gonna make this better don't try and defend anything just say I am sorry and I'm trying to make this better so Diane Abbott has tweeted that at Tom Watson knows perfectly well that he cannot make demands at the general secretary Jenny for me she is only answerable to UK labour any see that's the party's ruling National Executive and very wrong to imply that she is dealing with this matter with anything less than her usual professionalism what do you make of that response what I make of that is so the letters that we get in from our readers they are ordinary decent compassionate people across the country they're not really that interested about the internal machination within the low party they just want the party that they believe in to show and exhibit all those values I mean if the shadow home secretary is tweeting a response like that does it mean that there is pressure on both sides Tom Watson as the deputy and Jeremy Corbyn as the leader to resolve this or not totally they have to get into a room and they have to work out what is the best way of dealing anti-semitism valeri party but then also making it clear that that is what they're doing right there is something slightly Orwellian about the idea of the Shadow Cabinet not being able to view the submission according to Tom Watson the Labour Party said they've offered that to him I'd be able to view the submission being made to the equalities Commission because the only eyes on it must be people in the Rooney executive is that going to hold there's got to be the anti-semitism is what we're seeing here but what lies beneath that is what's increasing and looking like a sort of dysfunctional nature within the top of the Labour Party and that's this is and that we've got to get to that point where they can communicate and they can because they are amazing party with some amazing policies at the moment and all that is getting lost in this big debate on anti-semitism yes do you think it is I mean at the anti austerity agenda which many people will support and think is the way forward is not getting any traction because of them but it's not only because of that it's also that I think most people can't take an anti austerity approach seriously while the Labour Party is supporting seeing through brexit there won't be a credible fight against austerity in the UK after brexit not not in the near future anyway it isn't possible right well it will be too difficult there won't be enough money it's as simple as that there won't be enough money right well let's talk about Labour Party policy on private schools because I want to welcome in Holly Rigby who's been campaigning to abolish private schools and would like the Labour Party to take it on as policy while she's taking her seat let's bring up this it's actually a tweet from your campaign but has the support of the former Labour leader Ed Miliband and the Labour against private school says were delighted that Ed Miliband is supporting labour against private schools campaign do you want to abolish even then well yeah so we started this campaign and for many reasons we think it's very long overdue but the Tory leadership election has been a particularly unwelcome reminder of how a privately educated elite still dominates our politics so we've got Boris Johnson who went to Eton we've got Jeremy Hunt who's at Charterhouse these are schools that charge fees of 40,000 pounds a year double the average salary in this country and actually as a state school teacher in one of the most deprived Barrios in London I just think it's fundamentally unjust that no matter how hard my students work no matter how much they want to change society they are statistically less likely to end up in the jobs that we run in the country in politics in the media in law in things like that and so yes absolutely we think we should have gone a shetan I've got terrible news for you the news is that while I admire your campaigning zest and zeal in this what do you think would happen if you a Polish to private schools we will firstly end up doing is having to decant all those pupils and spend state money on the extra 7% of pupils who don't need to have fate and I spent on them to put them into schools you're wasting resources they're number one number two do you think for one moment that those pupils would not get tuition up to the eyeballs up to the hilt to propagate whatever issues you are suggesting I think the issue here is we have to be realistic we have to look at ways we can mitigate within the private system we already seen changes in the last few years in terms of partnerships facilities bursaries we need more of those things that we need to build not destroy you're after it you know destruction agenda here we want to build for everyone not to destroy so I think you raised a number of issues there and we're going to take up the one about and partnerships and bursaries because this is often the way that and private schools justify their charitable status and actually what we know is that only 1% of students in private schools have a 100 percent bursaries that's only 1% of students who are from the most disadvantaged backgrounds and actually the Independent Schools Commission published their own report recently that was about partnerships between the private and estate sector and some of the things were what you might expect they share drama studios and things like that but the most common partnership that justified their title status was that private schools play sporting matches against state schools as if like we should be so grateful to you know to a football match against the private school and and it just seems to me that this is you know frankly ludicrous this is crumbs from the master's table and we think we need something more radical labor should take all this policy sorry to so it's just gonna say but are you taking away choice from people who do have the means and actually quite a lot of private schools are attended by people who are not they're not going to eat in a Harrow they're going to a normal update boarding school probably they are boarding in their local area and actually aren't you taking away the choice from them a lot of parents actually sacrifice their salaries their sacrifice holidays in order to be able to get their children into those schools aren't you taking the choice away from those parents we yeah we would never blame parents for for the choices they make but weeks you are because the parents have chosen the children to go to that school what we would say is there's there's a number of different ways we need to solve educational inequality the first way is that we need to massively invest funding into our state schools because we know as you mentioned earlier that we've now got a funding crisis that I see on a daily basis and schools like mine teaching assistance being car special needs provision just being completely decimated so we need to invest in the state sector so that people feel confident in that sector but actually we can't leave the private schools untouched either because I think that we shouldn't have a school system that is segregated by class actually and that we would have a more socially cohesive society if we have all children of all classes you know educated so I believe that doesn't would it be more equal I don't believe I mean if I went to or I didn't go to I was going the UK but I was born my Geryon I went to private school there and I know just how important having that option is for young people and for parents to be able to you know if the state school isn't up to scratch off the standard given having that choice that they can go somewhere else you know the parents can spend their money actually helping the children have a better chance of life as possible but then I agree with you that we should actually focus on getting the state schools to be as good as they can be so that they can compete with the private schools well I don't necessarily think that we should knock you know private I'm sure as someone who's privately educated that there are far too many people like me in Westminster I'm certain of that and I've been sure of it for a very long time I'm very grateful for the advantages I was give in the education that I had but I do think that it's it's given me a different way of seeing the world it's given me a very different experience particularly having been to to a boarding school and I think that the massive over-representation of people a little bit brighter and mostly but like me in Westminster I think is is really corrosive and I think I'm not quite sure how you address it I've it's too difficult for me to have a coherent opinion on what your proposed it was my whole world as a child and it's hard for me to know sort of how to assess that but I do think is it's a corrosive influence in in Westminster I mean I just think that not only is it entirely unfair and that we were taking up as you say that the private schools are giving more opportunities how can it be right that some of our children have greater opportunities in life than others so that's on one side the argument in society that some people have got more opportunities another because there's a societal issue full-stop you're putting a microcosm here like I said to you you won't eliminate this by getting rid of private schools you won't but you would you would absolutely narrow that gap without shadow of a doubt and the other issue is are we really serious that the people are coming out to place like Eaton all right she's in this country of service are we saying that Boris Johnson and David Cameron maybe seriously you're doing is you're reducing very very bright bright kids who could really take this country into a new good set of you 90s we're very talented very hardworking and we do a much better job we call ejecting mediocrity from a lot of people because their parents had the money and we can't call education a microcosm you know it's vast it's what shapes its I'm saying you're not taking Junkers room if you abolish the private tuition and they would have those opportunities still in a way that they would that they have now what's happened to what would happen to the pupils that we would have to be schooled elsewhere religion I can say that where would you go well thank you for that that's a comforting comforting thought where would you put them so we have a number of different things that we would say that we want to do to integrate all Private Schools into the state sector so we obviously want to abolish charity status but we say that that doesn't go far enough actually because we know that these big public schools like eat and have historic endowment they were meant for the education of poor scholars and now I'm not using that way so let's redistribute those endowments moorefamily fairly and democratically and I would say let's turn eaten into a further education college or a special needs school because I think it'd be much better use than for a very small number of posh boys but there is an assumption in some of the discussion here that private schools somehow are always better than state schools even in well the way they currently exist and actually there are some parents who could choose to send their children to private school who send them to States are they always better private school things they are better at these networking opportunities so the people can Swan out of there they they will be coached in certain ways they can pass exams and then they will Swan out because they're they you know their friends dad's got a job in the city then they get a job in the city it's all those opportunities that Annie use also have parents with a lot of money who will there's a bigger picture there too and I know as a recipient of it there's an inherent confidence that it's given when you have yeah when you're effectively told that everything is possible and then it's shown to you that everything is possible and like I said I don't quite know how to feel about it but I do feel that that as much as possible must be available to all children it's so key that the kids want the young and optimistic feeling that everything's but is that a deficiency in the state school system that they don't have high enough so this is really important actually this is you've had an important point here I come across lots of students in the six forms of state schools and I say 'then where'd you want to go to university and often they tell me oh I've been told I should go to you know Knight Nottingham I said what a man Oxbridge in that says oh no one's ever told me I can maybe in your school every single day with my state school I'm delighted you do that and why I say recent no Holi yeah of course I mean I've listened I've got students who have you know from from in an elephant castle and new who have gone so excursion things like that I even had a former student who won a scholarship to Eton and he was one of the very small numbers of people who won a scholarship and yes he had an opportunity to meet incredible people the old boys network that he had access to was extraordinary but for every one of those students there was a hundred seventy nine other children that year group who didn't get there and who will never get access to that and so it's not about plucking out one or two children from their communities and giving them a nice I understand your expectation is setting up children to fail is quite often the phrase that you have three children in the state education and I have never felt at any point any teachers ever set them up to fail I think they're given an amazing opportunities they've been given a great education but they are never gonna have that Network through a private school is labour going to take on this plot of stuff gonna be brilliant if they do well I know you might think it's pretty much anything they were worried where are you with this campaign yes we are absolutely delighted we have had the backing of a number of MPs obviously most high-profile a Miliband but also Laura Pitt cork is a fantastic new young MP Clive Lewis who's on the front bench and we are very much hoping to have more and more and what I would say is that people always accused us of having liked the politics of envy but actually as a state school teacher why would I not want the absolute best for the young people in front of me why don't they deserve to have small class sizes luxurious facilities access to this incredible network of alumni and I think that would make our society much better and much fairer and abolishing private schools is key to that you cannot leave them intact we've got to fund state schools but let's get rid of the law what do you think just listening to this Polly thank you very much for coming in we are going to talk about something different how politicians are responding to the social activism campaigned by young people on social media our reporter as Anna Francis has been taking a look the rise of social media influences may have given some politician as the impression that young people only care about selfies and fame but bubbling just below the radar social media has given more young people the platform to express their views which has driven a new kind of activism petitions are as old as democracy but what's different is the Internet has basically turbocharged your ability to be able to gather signatures some recent laws and statements such as the upskirting ban and declaring a climate emergency all started life in an online petition at the heart of this is Kajal Adira of change.org do you want to tell us a bit about the campaign Your Honor politicians aren't really going to where young people are or where ordinary people are to find out the about the issues that matter to them but young people are taking this into their own hands and they're using sites like ours to speak up Westminster is Pale Male and style the people that are really successful on our site are young people women people of color we see ourselves as a bridge between Westminster and the rest of society after spending some time with Kajal and her team it is easy to see how websites like chains can create a community where people get advice from people who at least speak their language and look a bit like them change.org isn't the only way to build an online petition you can come directly to Westminster and go on the government's website if you get 10,000 signatures the government has to respond despite the prevalence of online trolls Ben Bradlee one of our youngest mp's thinks politicians could be more engaged on social media but it's a far cry from a silver bullet I do think there is more and more need for politicians to be out there it does attract some stick I do get a lot of questions from young people but they do tend to be through Facebook for example I actually always say you know if you want to talk to my office drop me an email talk to me the only way to get and really as a Facebook message according to political think-tank onward age has replaced class is the most dividing line in British politics globally young people are not at the center of political decision-making even though almost half of the world's population is under 30 and almost all of Britain's young people use social media it's becoming more and more like a powerful tool only in itself but also to support kind of in real-life activism Tyler dolly is a sustainable and ethical fashion activist as a close ally of extinction rebellion I wanted to find out if social media influences the way she does her politics sometimes we don't see our views as like political but then they can actually be like inherently political the government and Parliament is very hard to like relate to especially people who don't see the self being represented so it gives you kind of an outlet to express your hands in a kind of an open space even reach like global audiences gifts and memes may be shareable but is it really wise to let social media popularity dictate new laws there is always a nuance and detail to everything that comes up and just because you know people have signed something in anger often doesn't make it the right thing to do so I do think there is a place for for us as politicians here to actually be those representatives and to think through not just what you know 100,000 individuals are saying but what is right for the whole country it's obvious that social medias changed have a whole generation of people engage in politics but with the average age of an MP 850 will be interesting to see how Parliament evolves to the ever-changing nature of online activism Marcus you're touring with your show yes do you think that young people engage more with politics through comedy yes or – absolutely yeah I've felt like that for a long time if you can say something and make it funny there's a good chance that people will remember it and the show I've written at the moment is called devil-may-care and I'm playing Lucifer fully painted red with horns and the whole thing why didn't you come like that today I'm so sorry Westminster I've been very welcome it's a way for me of talking about the division and talking about the way in which social media exactly as was just discussed social media for example gives us tons and tons and tons of information and we're supposed to be able to process and what seems to be happening with this information is an immediate condemnation you disagree with me so you're evil therefore in the narrative of my show you're going to hell so Lucifer has really come up to say please will you take it easy because I've just had a load of people come in who use plastic straws I'm doing the the devil-may-care at the Edinburgh Festival and a play about alcoholism and sobriety and how that affects families right and and it is it are your audience is full of young people yeah absolutely yeah yeah yeah well actually I've been lucky because I've done lots of radio for and kids telly and everything in between that I get a really wide spectrum I often get teenagers and people in their 70s I think is ideal for me doesn't do you think politics of the future is going to be dictated to by and large by social media and campaigns on them I think there will be a room for traditional politics in the sense of Parliament and MPs but I do think that social media has played a significant role getting more and more young people interested in politics I think it's a way it implies our voice so we're an attention generation whatever grabs our attention we want to talk about it I think social media is a way for us to directly put that out there and let politicians know that this this has grabbed our attention we really want to push in this I think actually as I mentioned before that I'm you know I I keep up with my doing politics last week in Nigeria we saw young people actually change and repeal a law that was going to affect quite a number of people through the use of social media and we saw senator that actually lets his arrest for assaulting a woman which 10 20 years ago that would have been swept under the carpet right but social media Liao's this issues to be brought out it allows young people to actually have a voice well that is very interesting so that was the direct result of a social media campaign is that something you would support or do you think there is a danger of sort of moving with whatever social media is clamoring for well the positives are of course engagement and people being able to access actually even their representatives in a much easier way in the old days you may have seen an MP once in a blue moon at a surgery literally it's hunt them down now your one tweet or one Facebook message away from communicating and that's a good thing however the the disadvantages are of course that we have seen no filter on social media and something that appears amazing at first thought and you've gone I'm going to pile in turns out once you thought about it to be less good and secondly the abusive side of social media is truly hideous and has that a corrosive effects on our politics full stop and the echo chambers though that the point that you are sort of picking up on has that been it was reinforced a bit by social you're talking to the same people time and time again there's no I think the point that Marx makes about the anger the low love anger people aren't even necessarily reading an entire story they're just reacting in the very moment it's it's a very emotion the mirrors been working on a project the moment we'll call written talks and we're trying to get people from all different sides of different arguments so we had a brexit ear in a row Manor were two great examples we had thousands of people enroll today and then bring together and say we're not trying to get you to change into others opinions what we want to do is sit down and try and find points of commonality between you things that you agree on and hundreds of people did this last weekend and they're some amazing stories and in my business that agreed they both like a little drop arose a in evenings but if they're still there and we all have to eat with them the way we use social media be mindful of it right I do you think that the politicians that don't engage fully with social media are going to be the ones that fail or as you as your report said that everyone under the age of 25 is on social media so as those people get older in their life that is going to remain constant that they've got to be on social media it's impossible to know who might help politicians with this though because this is new enough and those who do engage with social media for the most part make at the very least some mistakes it's new and people don't know and my generators at a forty year old but we are not that good at it we're either completely obsessed or push it away and I think that it's a vital tool in in how MPs communicate with people at Jamie's siskins book future politics is very interesting about the effect of all of this on they're all out any advice doesn't you tab for politicians engaging in social media keep up to date with the means whether that sounds like a pretty good advice that's all we have time for here on politics live from all of us though have a very nice and that's it bye-bye you other that's all the politics lives for this week I think Tuesday is they today's that's them out the way the Haas things next I think from yesterday I begrudge them useful and hostess or bored cuz they say the same basically but let's give it a shot a I suppose I think I'll just have a little two-minute break with you guys and waffle a little bit for the I'm do another show and yeah yeah from 7:00 I'm gonna do another one tonight at 7:00 but there was a hosting from yesterday I think a much stream now SodaStream almost with the same as a pal well to be fair I want the plan to be lower than a euro me get more investments if it was lower pants being – aegis man it's it's being the reason why the pants so strong is because it's a safe investment basically it's being too high for too long the model comes down the best is for our companies because they paid $16 not pounds a lot of people don't know that shipper when the pine goes down the Exchequer makes more money in taxes believe it or not because the pay in pounds is expensive to pay in dollars isn't so expensive but we pay more in dollars which is weird so your make up for it and in the currency market so to speak so it's there it's quite interesting aspect that's why you always see the footsie off when the pound goes down multinational corporations pay in dollars people not pounds you know the Tories have got a lot of saxton actually but it's not teacher just then which due to the falling apart as well it's not good in sense of where external stuff like buying power like gas and like that because we we import a lot of stuff as well you know like gas and whatever so at that point it does cost the Exchequer money both cuz the Bank of England money shirts really because then the after day print more money is umbrella and su longer deaths it's slightly higher interest rates on the deaths so long as government bonds but if you watch that show die I was trying to stream the other day about the World Bank of Scotland is the Bank of England basically gave Royal Bank of Scotland government bonds to shore up its a its capital so they could sell the government bonds and nobody knew about it they did it by stealth which is right there wasn't a run on the bank for RBS like it was for a Northern Rock which is quite interesting Benny and yeah it does make it more it does make it more competitive especially when we sell stuff it's the end Kathleen but it's a you can rewind if you want to watch it or you can just wait until it's uploaded but I'm gonna do a host in this next custom or Kathleen I should say so never fail it sits on this couple did you already boom from Thursday news oh yeah I did there this week as well from Thursday so you can watch that and I did one from Tuesday because that wasn't uploaded and that one that you just seen there it's today's right anywho I'll be back in about two minutes let's see what they say things about this one from yesterday I think is it yesterday I think it's just a yeah anyway behind a bit

The new politics | Anywhere but Westminster



we can get rid of David Cameron in just a few short months across Great Britain Orthodox two-party politics is dying in front of our eyes it seems to me we're at the start of a political Reformation the people I just think we need to say something different you don't have to be an insider to know that politics here and all over the world is changing fast in fact it probably helps if you're not across Europe and now America there are new political faces and voices maverick politicians are mounting a serious challenge to the old girl we've been traveling up and down the country making anywhere but Westminster for six years now and in that short time we've witnessed a very real shift in the political landscape 20th century politics was built on the foundations of big industry dependable jobs solid blocks of voters stable parties but those old certainties are long gone the decline in any use half a million people working on this rolls the money is a lot better than the steelworks but there's nothing in that sort of industry immune anymore like yeah we're back only gives a about war zone the ghost town workwise well if you last have a job beause six year ago the economy is now changed beyond recognition and not only in the old industrial heartland working life across Britain today appears more precarious than ever this is a sliding scale work looks like you will be required to work various shifts obviously you're all in control of your own actions no one else is in charge of your life you make something of it and you'll get somewhere for a long time mainstream politics didn't seem to be interested in how much society and the economy were changing it was stuck in a bull out of the rut its crisis hits us like a hammer when we drove straight from the day of the Scottish referendum result to the tedium of the Labour Party conference good vibrations it's a very sedate medium quiet audience it's doing what they're told time and again we've heard people in the main parties heartlands talk of dutifully voting but feeling increasingly unsure about what they receive in return why do you still vote Labour sir well I get voted on just habit yeah having a cup of tea in the morning in an insecure unstable world sooner or later you get insecure unstable politics cement party establishments lose control and want some questionable arrangements like Britain's relationship with Europe or England's union with Scotland a suddenly threat politics too is now a jungle the SMPS demolition of labour in the 2015 Westminster election was no fluke it was confirmation that a huge number of people in Britain are sick of the old orthodoxy the crew to say all over the place all kinds of people are talking about politics in a very different way people that may need to be in City Hall quick people are going to demand change so that's where we're going out into the new chaotic politics we want you to help us and tell us where we ought to go just as long as it's anywhere but Westminster face I guess this place has some claim to be in it this is whole bubble where famously in the early 19th century agricultural workers try to organize form betray helium for their pains they were arrested and deployed the top-level Martin

Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt clash in Conservative leadership debate



this country faces a momentous choice we can either continue with the same old failed can kicking approach destroying trust in politics sapping business confidence or else we can change get back our mojo restore this country's reputation around the world and put ourselves on the path to long-term success and the way to do that is to get brexit done by October the 31st unite our country with more money for our schools more police on the beat full fiber broadband for all and make our case to the people again with renewed power and conviction to have fantastic infrastructure and public services you must have a dynamic market economy because that is how we beat the semi Marxist wealth and job destroying lunacy of Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party know someone whose campaign for brexit and who believes in it and who has a plan to unite this country and who has long experience of beating the Labour left I believe I'm the right person to unleash on this project and I hope I can count on your support as a tough negotiator I'll deliver brexit but so much more I'll be the first Prime Minister to have been an entrepreneur and I'll use that experience to fire up our economy the first prime minister to have run the NHS and like I did there will reform and fund our vital public services I'm the foreign secretary who will invest in our brilliant armed services so that we walk tall in the world and the first Prime Minister for half a century 2 1 a marginal seat so I know how to get young people to support our party in poll after poll I'm the public's preferred choice for Prime Minister because I appeal not just to those who already vote conservative but those we need to win and to those watching at home I'll be your Prime Minister whoever you vote for as I bring together our amazing United Kingdom is if you don't get us out of the EU by the 31st of October will you resign we're going to come out on October the 31st and I think anybody who goes into this negotiating a negotiation proposing again to kick the can down the road well I think run the risk of forfeiting trust with the electorate and also undermining our negotiating position in Brussels could you answer mr. hunts question delay does not deliver a deal deadline would deliver a deal might stick to that deadline I think it's a no and what we've got is someone who says it's do or die I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I think what we have with so you resigned if you don't know my opponent is clearly not committed to coming out of the EU sorry help if you speak over one another I'm so please could you respond to the question that mr. hunters put to you mr. Kyser and then you can respond Mr Hunt I think it's very very important not to envisage any circumstances in which we would fail to come out of the EU on October the 31st I don't want to hold out to the EU the prospect that they might encourage my resignation by refusing to agree a deal mr. hunt except there is a cost to no deal to you well I certainly think that badly handled a no deal a disruptive no deal brexit could be costly but the crucial thing and I think everybody is agreed on this in the conservative part the crucial thing is to prepare so we can get rid like this is a great postulate how cost well it's vanishingly inexpensive if you prepare if Parliament rules out a No Deal brexit would you prepared to prorogue or suspend Parliament to get to the end that you want to see well I think when that's happened in the past when Parliament's being shut down against its will we actually had a civil war and I think it would be a rather curious thing to do if this is about taking back control for Parliament to actually shut it down so my answer to that is no how about you Boris well I'm not going to take anything off the table anymore that I'm going to take no Dino arts off the table mr. mr. Johnson straight to the point of a president Trump's comments about both the Prime Minister and the UK's ambassador to the u.s. what's your stance well look I have a very good relationship with the the White House and I'm very proud of what I was able to build up during my time as foreign settings it's very important that we should have a close friendship a close partnership with the United States so they're our most important ally I think the single most important geostrategic fact to the last hundred years has been the closest between the u.s. and the you know I I don't think you know he was he was dragged into a British political debate in which you in way he sometimes is I don't think it's necessarily the right thing for him to do is Jeremy have said but let's wrong to smack his face it's our relationship with the US is a fantastic importance of what one quality do you most admire in your opponent as a future Prime Minister I've worked very well with Jeremy over many years I think I I value greatly admire his ability to to change his mind on and campaign for brexit now I think that's a very important attribute well I I I really admire Boris's ability to answer the question yes this has this great ability you ask him a question he puts a smile on your face and you forget what the question was it's a brilliant quality for a politician maybe not a prime minister there I get that many piece of damn

Politics Live 02/07/2019



it's Tuesday it's 11:45 and we're live in Westminster joining me today Labour's Lisa Nandi the conservative and Jeremy hunk tobacker Vicki Ford the Telegraph's Christopher hope and former Labour adviser Ayesha hazarika so what's happening today new MEP s take up their seats in Strasbourg with the brexit party already making their presence felt by turning their backs on the EU anthem we'll be speaking to one of their new MPs labour have stepped up calls for an independent investigation into the civil service after claims about jeremy corbyn's physical and mental health and Jeremy Hunt and Boris Johnson share a plane to Northern Ireland to take part in a hustings but will either pay attention to this we have to live within our means and people have to be honest about the consequences of either spending more money or of cutting taxes let's pick up with that warning from the Chancellor Philip Hammond the Institute for Fiscal Studies has called the spending pledges of the two Tory leadership candidates expensive ambitious have the Tories abandoned fiscal prudence Lisa well they've seemed to have finally understood that if you want to reboot the economy in sounds like mind then you've got to actually put money in the pockets of people who will go out and spend it people who are lower or middle earners and invest in infrastructure I think the big problem though is that it's taken them 10 years to work it out and they only seem to have done it because they've got their eye on a general election which you know that not it by any means guaranteed to win 10 years of needless misery I think if I was just an ordinary voter looking at all of this I'd say well you know if you've got two parties promising to spend in the next general election to start rebuilding this country let's vote for the ones who actually mean it who've been saying it for 10 years right Hebei abandoned fiscal responsibility as the Chancellor is in why absolutely not because anyone who lives through having to clean up the mess left by labour doesn't want to take us back into that situation but I think there's a very clear plan from Jeremy Hunt to make sure that you turbocharged the economy to get a larger economy which you do by supporting businesses and reduces some of the costs and taxes on businesses to turbocharge the economy so you've got a bigger tax take in order to be able to fund those things that we both agree we need to do that's the way to drive the stronger economy and the stronger public services Philip Hammonds worried about the spending pledges are you I think Tory voters would be I mean this is a kind of spending explosion by both candidates which is – forgetting while I loved will a vote Tory which is have a degree of looking after the money and checking it too much cash in dispersion the wrong places they're saying infrastructure they're saying you know trying to support the high streets and other areas but certainly it's a worry well some of the spending pledges by Jeremy Hunt in fact on things like infrastructure might make jeremy corbyn's eyes water I usually do you think they have abandoned fiscal prudence well it's very introduced to pick up something that Vicki said it wasn't actually the Labour government that caused the global financial crisis that was a global financial crisis clue being in the title but in terms of the conserved party was really intend they always used to accuse labour of having this thing called the magic money tree they now have a fiscal forest it seems in terms of the amount of cash that they're sort of splashing and I think this will come back to haunt them and actually what a lot of commentators are saying you can't believe a word these guys say particularly Boris Johnson you know who will see sort of one thing to win maybe the idea that is suddenly gonna start splashing the cash is absolutely for the birds in my opinion let's just look at Boris Johnson's first policy commitment which was at times when we're having a hard time there's not enough police on the streets we need more money in our you know public services you know kids are going to school hungry he was gonna have a tax cut to the wealthiest people in this country it's like fiscally and politically illiterate are you going to say something well I mean yeah I mean he did say I'm not a defender foster campaign I mean I do think he is saying that was one part of his offer the other part is to raise thresholds for the no at lower wasn't it really went down badly it was a column I sure exactly it like most of his kind of policy things are fluted in the column which is the the sort of newsletter for him that the telegraph but it just looked very toned if you think the conservative leadership has an opportune to speak to the whole country and basically he's saying right we're gonna give a tax cut to the wealthiest in this country are you kidding me when people to be fair he's talking 160,000 members who might who are members of the party so crave all right it is fight it's fiscally illiterate but also it's politically ludicrous for the conserve strategy they're trying to send a One Nation message it's basically like we're still for the rich well let's find out how the hustings are going first of all I think we can show you some pictures because these hustings are taking place in Northern Ireland today all very cozy because Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt have shared a plane to Northern Ireland no doubt they've been exchanging pleasantries about No Deal over croissant and coffee but let's talk about the impact of the No Deal policies being put forward by both candidates because we can join our T's Europe editor Tony Connolly he is in fact in Brussels at an EU summit where they are discussing the future European Commission president Tony welcome to the program Boris Johnson has said that the chances of a No Deal brexit are a million to one against but the bookmaker Paddy Power has them at a little over 2 to 1 is there a sense in the Republic of Ireland that No Deal is now more likely than ever I think there is that sense in Ireland also here in Brussels increasingly you hear diplomats and leaders talk about the No Deal prospect increasing and on that basis they are talking about increasing their own preparations and contingency planning for for No Deal planning I think there's a general view that both candidates will become hostage to their own rhetoric on No Deal and that will be very difficult once the leadership risk is concluded for either candidate to to step down from that rhetoric so there is a an increasing view here that No Deal is now a lot more likely yeah right so how seriously is Dublin and the EU member-states how seriously are they taking this bolder approach even if they think it might be a hostage to fortune we have had quite a lot of detail about No Deal so what are they doing Dublin and the EU in order to engage well on one level the EU has been running a whole series of contingency preparations and planning exercises across the board in terms of customs preparation in terms of regulatory preparation for the state's most affected there have been a series of notices from the European Commission effectively telling Member States they have to get their their houses in order because ultimately Member States are the ones who have to uphold EU law when it comes to trading or interacting with a third country when it comes to Ireland obviously that's a lot more tricky and it's it's highly sensitive because on the one hand Ireland has been effectively saying that look we are not planning to establish a hard border and in Ireland because that's that's the the narrow political choice the tshirt live abroad car has but on the other hand Ireland is of course on the record as saying that they will have to uphold EU law and uphold the integrity of the single market so at some point that conversation is going to get a lot more honest and realistic has it started that conversation privately if not publicly yet because people will be asking is the EU more interested in protecting the EU single market than it is in keeping the Irish border open and protecting the peace process well it's a Hobson's choice really if there is no deal I mean the EU and the Irish government approached this whole process of brexit by presuming that there would be a negotiated withdrawal agreement that would take care of the complexities and I suppose contradictions at the Irish border if Northern Ireland is outside the single market and customs union then the EU has to follow its own rules and WTO rules and there has to be some kind of checks and controls at that border it's a frontier border with the third country and but having said that the EU largely has tolerated a certain ambivalence from Ireland as to what it would do at the border and and those those conversations are taking place but they're they're very much at the political level I'm told there are very few if any technical discussions between Dublin and the European Commission as to how you manage what's going to happen at the border on day one of no deal and there's a very obvious reason for that because the moment Ireland publicly says that it's it's trying to limit the damage at the border then people in the UK will say well there you are you see the backstop is not necessary right so is this pressure then on the EU to move towards whoever is the new leader and next prime minister of the UK well I wouldn't characterize it as pressure I mean the official public and private line from the EU and from Member States has been that look we wait and see who this new Prime Minister is and we'll try and establish a cordial and working relationship with him but the idea of no deal being a threat that would force the EU into abandoning Ireland's position that that has been said many times and the EU is still saying that they would support Ireland that they will not reopen the backstop or the withdrawal agreement and that it is it is a threat that would damage the UK more than the rest of the EU all right having said that of course it is absolutely correct to say that Ireland is going to be the most exposed country in a nouvion situation all right Tony Connolly thank you very much let's show you Jeremy Hunt here he's at those hustings in Northern Ireland no doubt discussing some of his No Deal plans and preparations via Ford you're supporting him are you wholly signed up with this idea of preparing for a No Deal brexit if negotiations prove fruitless by the 30th of September so first of all I think it's really important to reiterate that leaving with the deal is the best science but that was what he said yesterday as well as the UK and that is what he repeated yesterday so are you also made it very clear that if there isn't a deal on the table we do need to be prepared for no deal but cutting it off at the 30th of September first of all I believe that Jeremy Hunt is the best person to negotiate a nexus about cutting I think that go back to those negotiations and resolve the issues on the backstop remember I was born and raised in Northern Ireland I do not want to go back to a hard border we need to find an alternative way the backstops failed three times I believe we need to send them someone they trust to be a good neighbor and that's jarett all right well only on the No Deal we have to be prepared for that the alternative arrangements proposals have been tried and tested in other countries they're not unicorn land these are valid and we need to be working on let's listen to Damian Green who is supporting Boris Johnson what he said about the deadline of the 30th September yesterday on the program argument is that October 31st is an arbitrary artificial deadline and it would be madness to end the negotiations there and if they thought there were some success in the offing but he's quite happy with an arbitrary and artificial deadline of September the 30th you can't hold both those positions at once once you can because if you are going to get towards a deal you'll know that within the first few months to start in those discussions that's the key point here is to have a strategy that says if there is no deal then we need to leave in the best prepared manner possible you need to take a decision before the 31st of October about whether or not there is gonna be a deal or not a deal Lisa you have always said you are staunchly against no deal it's Parliament running out of time to block it if they can find a way yeah I think we are and I think the future of the country is now in the hands of two people whose game you just heard very clearly articulated by Toni on that interview which is to use the threat of no deal in order to persuade Ireland to make changes to the backstop now for all the reasons that he gave this is not going to happen not least because all of those EU leaders are under pressure from their own citizens who would rather see who No Deal brexit than see further concessions made to the UK they'd run out of patience so the only people that Jeremy Hunt and Boris Johnson are threatening are the British people who stand to lose jobs access to medicine and real real chaos as a result of No Deal which they know and they've accepted why didn't you vote what the deal was and what's worse and what's worse about all of this is that the Latorre party we've just heard they're about to throw away any kind of reputation any kind of credibility they've now got left for fiscal responsibility but what they're also doing is gambling with our security because they're trying to alright Lee but they're most his friends allies and neighbours into changes to the backstop in order to hold the Tory party together though well there work out those allies in the faith there will be those who say that this is a two-way process and that Ireland has as much responsibility in terms of that border as the UK but Viki raises an interesting question why didn't you vote for the did you regret now not voting for the deal because actually you could have got that and avoided no deal no in fact you know it was only because I've made such efforts including here on this show to reach out to the Tory party that Teresa may even began to talk to us and it was deeply frustrating because every time we got close to an agreement it was one step forward and two steps back we got to the point just before she resigned where she'd finally accepted what we've been asking her for for six months which was a floor beneath which workers rights would not sink environmental protections and a row but now you would vote for the deal and then she quits right but would you vote for if it was reproduced now would you vote for it now with all those considerations if if that deal were put on the table through the withdrawal agreement bill I would do as I said we should just pour Teresa may resigned and vote for it a second reading is the order to thresh out the details at a later date because there are still outstanding concerns but my god why did it take so long we had three years well it takes so long – let's look for let's look forward I mean about the policies of the two candidates because Lisa is saying this is putting untold pressure on on Ireland what do you make of the strategy being right I mean the idea that Jeremy hunts idea is to create a lot of politicians DP ERG people who have to get the whole thing through Parliament try and negotiate a deal get to the 30th of September that's clearly a kind of how far we got not a firm deadline but how far we got and then maybe try and push through to October 31st and brass Johnson it they were both threatening No Deal to try and get the EU to the table and try and time limit this backstop I think then we leave on the October 31st that's the idea and that's why you're seeing lots of you know macho remarks lots of kind of bold statements about No Deal I would take it with a bit of a pinch of salt but they have to look is that they believe it therefore they're spending money on on No Deal and that's the plan Asia I actually just feel incredibly sorry for the people of Northern Ireland in all of this nobody even considered the Irish border a question when this ridiculous prospect of brakes that was first fluted you know all the Greens and Britain could not come up with something I was actually in Northern Ireland when the tragedy happened in Derry where a young woman a young journalist Lyra McKee was murdered because tensions are are flaring up again and I think it's very limited thickness well hang on a minute Christopher I was actually there talking to people and actually what people are saying is it's all very well for us sitting in Westminster to pontificate like it's a game people are tearing their hair Oh in Northern Ireland about the social consequences about a hard border coming West it's like a tinderbox situation there and I think it's shameful but we in Westminster and people like in the ERG have not given a fig about the people of Northern and by the way if we get an audio breaks it Northern Ireland's GDP will suffer a 12% hit which might focus mines in Ireland – Lisa what options are there – blocking No Deal well limited really because for two reasons one is because we failed in the attempt to to try and block a new prime minister from recessing Parliament so it is really up to a new Prime Minister what they do next the second problem though of course which has been a problem all the way through this is that if Parliament wants to stop No Deal we have to agree on an alternative and so far that has proven virtually impossible it just hasn't happened the only way to be perfectly frank to stop no deal at this stage is either to revoke article 50 something I supported in Parliament in the event of no deal a few months ago or to agree an alternative deal my preference like Vicky would be to agree a deal but if we can't she and her colleagues should be in no doubt that there are people like me who was staunchly opposed to a second referendum but would revoke rather than see my constituents lose their jobs and lose access to medicine right let's have a look at this because in the times Viki Ford I'll scrap your summer holidays macho hunt tells civil servants but that's gone down really well hasn't it in the civil service so we've got a really short period of time and we need to be prepared and if Lisa and her colleagues would vote for the deal if we could resolve the issues on the Northern Ireland border as I said I grew up I was born and raised near the border in Northern Ireland nobody wants to go backwards the Good Friday Agreement the Belfast agreement is crucial but we do need to be prepared because actually the EU could tip us at if we're not prepared right what do you think about this idea of making service at the MPs of course will be on holiday and the civil servants will be working all over the the summer if Jeremy Hunt is Prime Minister I think there is a crisis on and they should working through the summer and have holidays later on is what we all do if we have to work our problem that we've had with a couple recesses cancelled by the government in Parliament and then literally no business scheduled blocks us from doing anything about brexit and so we were all just sitting there now I'm absolutely for I mean we've Parliament just tried to make sure that we couldn't have a new Tory Prime Minister cancel Parliament and stop us from sitting I'm all for civil servants members of parliament it's working through the night if we can make some progress but when you've got a government that's blocking it what is the point civil servants are not gonna hold the magical keys to this this is about politics this is about leadership we remember we're a real player on our third prime minister since this whole debacle started you know we've had so many different breaks at secretaries and let's go back to the basic facts of this the EU have said they are not opening up there with drover we can dress up in so many ways Jeremy Jeremy Hunt turns up going even Jeremy Corbyn thinks he's never reopened the deal ain't gonna happen Jeremy hunts like I'm an entropic out there not gonna be like amazing you're in a trap or now let's just open up Boris Johnson I thought best of British Bulldog spirit no they're not a little bit change tells me chair we need years to get here and I really reserved you what their bosses though yeah the idea that Jeremy Hunt or Boris Johnson in literally like in a couple of months time it's just gonna somehow be able to do what we haven't done in three years it's for the birds the birds of vast majority of the wood jurel agreement is agreed the issue that is not agreed is the backstop yes with the Northern Irish border the EU size shoe have agreed at the Strasbourg declaration a couple of months ago that they would work on the alternative arrangements that is now published let's resolve it don't hoary lowing document City Java app to work conferencing either gonna come silently morph into Steve Jobs and well providing technological sorry short reassure will convince Ayesha that a change of leader a change of Prime Minister will unlock those negotiable servants do what their bosses want if they they do they do what their boss is one trees may be trying to manage this careful compromise for the past three years it hasn't worked you can't be half in half out you know it's it's a binary choice brexit the problem for people who don't like breaks is that's all the people want to do so that's what's going to happen and therefore a leader in there who what's deliver breaks there's a chance of getting all that you know that as soon as the leadership contest is over everyone's gonna flop on the Sun Lounger in Tuscany or Santorini cause they're gonna be all just leave it to the civil servants that's what that's Gerry holding off he's not gonna be leader right come on do you believe that no deal will be good for business no deal is not the preferred solution let's just calm down everybody if this is an enormous lis serious situation for our country and our relationships with our nearest neighbors and that's why I'm backing the candidate to be the prime minister of our country who is trusted and competent on the international stage with the serious plan those 10-point plans that he came up with and presented in detail yesterday and if that means we all need to work a bit harder to get this over the line and compromise and listen a bit more over the next few months we have to do that do you think a deal could be done now Lisa you you signed that letter you were one of 26 I think Labour MPs who signed that letter urging Jeremy Corbyn not to go full throttle for a second referendum you don't want that you do want a deal you are happier with the concessions that you think the government made the existing one so do you now think that the numbers have changed and I don't know if the numbers have changed to be honest because I think that the arithmetic is the same for every move that the Tory party makes towards labour they lose some on the other side and every move they were towards the G they loose them on our side so I'm not sure that's that's different I do think that the prospect of No Deal is concentrating mines but I don't know what the numbers are there to get there I think the bigger problem actually is what Viki just said I mean she said that she's voting for the candidate who's taken seriously on a world stage and he's trying to put together some kind of credible plan unfortunately that candidate is not going to win and so we're going to have a prime minister who is not taken seriously on a world stage and isn't made no effort to put together any kind of serious or credible plan and frankly is loathed by my party for very very good reasons right Jeremy Hunt isn't going to win I mean he's not the front runner the front runners don't always win but isn't this just about going through the motions more than going through the motions because he doesn't stand a chance against Boris John's on the other thing that I think is actually opening people's eyes as well as looking at what the alternative is if we got tipped into a general election and ended up with Jeremy Corbyn and that's what my constituents are absolutely terrified by the thought of a hard left government coming in under Jeremy Corbyn I mean at the idea that you can paint Labour's extremists at a point when you've got two candidates you worried the party was going to split do you still feel that which part of Labour Party no you know I think for the purposes of Brax it both parties have split I don't think that that party structures make very much sense in the face of brexit to be honest for both the Tories and labour what what I do think is really problematic though is that behind this argument around a second referendum in labour is an argument about who we want to represent and whether the coalition that Labour his tradition traditionally held between working-class and middle-class people can hold and there are certain of my colleagues who are fairly cavalier about that who believe actually that we can be a party that just represents middle-class voters in cities and there is a real real problem for the country because that would abandon large Suede's of the country to a puppet of far-right parties and prevent any prospect of a Labour government very briefly because with amigo I think I push back on the argument if you were from a police where I grew up in in Scotland that is not middle-class at all it is working-class and it is very much firmly Ramin because it doesn't want to see a massive hit to its thing there's no last word but I accept that I think what people commentator at you who I have huge amounts of respect for though I just haven't quite understood perhaps because you're not in these discussions at the moment on the frontline of politics is that there is an argument going on within the Labour Party about whether labour can try to speak for two very different parts of the constructive and then absolute on things like critique austerity wasn't always we led on that and we kind of change the way to remain mainly over each other down the track by the week is if we have a general election it's going to be revoke or a hard but alright Matt Lisa and Aisha we're going to move on we're going to stick with labour but we have got to move on because I don't think we're going to get an unsee artery smog from Strasbourg something to do with the line unfortunately can I just move on to jeremy corbyn's call for an independent investigation into anonymous briefings by civil servants to The Times newspaper about the labor leaders fitness for high office now Marc said well the cabinet secretary and senior civil servant has suggested a meeting with Jeremy Corbyn now it started Ayesha as a newspaper story at the weekend lots of unattributed quotes often these sorts of stories have forgotten but now questions have been asked in Parliament and we've had letters to mark said well how serious is this well first of all I think the story it was quite disingenuous because I know people who work in the labour party they're not necessarily fans of Jeremy Corbyn but my goodness they said that he is fit as a fiddle and they'll feel like rush up the stairs and they're the ones sweating and panting behind him so I thought it was kind of quite a spurious quite a sort of kind of lazy and quite you know kind of rude sort of thing to do however you know I think Jeremy I think the response it probably won't be Jeremy Corbyn himself it will be his advisers it will be Seamus Milne it will be his kind of team around him who want to be very very bullish with this I think they've slightly overreacted to it look the rough-and-tumble of politics is if you seek the highest office in the land you come under a to scrutiny we've seen it with Boris Johnson we've seen it with Jeremy Hunt of course we've seen it in bucket loads with Jeremy Corbyn sort with my ol boss Ed Miliband however to now sort of say you can have some judge led inquiry into what happened in the civil service is a bit over the top and quite frankly I wish Jeremy Corbyn had spent a bit a little bit as much time dealing with the anti-semitism in the party as trying to root out the civil servant who made this silly comment what do you think about Isis well I shouldn't say the reporting is lazy the people who wrote the story are extremely experienced times journalists who know what they're doing and this is a concern that the civil service may have I'm not across it I've read write about it if that's their concern he's neither dressing I mean if they're saying they weren't about jeremy corbyn's health or whether he can tack it as a PM that needs to be aired do you agree well I'm much more worried about his policy fitness than his physical fitness because the policies are what's really scary about this awesome so what scares me about thinking about a corbin LED Premiership is a that hard left membership that we know wants to take businesses away from their owners and just yesterday taking homes away from home owners you know this is the sort of government that he is threatening we're gonna have some fitness that we should be checking out that's all we have time for but we're back on BBC 2 tomorrow at the usual time of 11:15 you crash this show it's like eternal documents for it's gone I hope I'm not just writing okay let's deal with some place that we're raising the starch at there so Angie Holland he lives in France a humid UK citizen that lives in France nice for you to be able to afford to off the Front's I guess like the poor bastards you live in the poorest parts of the United Kingdom yeah we didn't benefit from the globalization plan called for an EU project it's funny the EU is now people think it's like the best thing since sliced bread if you can force a off on holiday that is it's one of these beautiful countries we at the same time it's a neoliberal cabal and you want us to give away your powers to a bunch of undemocratic you don't tell other people you get elected what to do if you know the the e structure works to the opposite of Britain right in in the UK we have these people called MPs who make the laws it goes to the House of Lords for second reading and then comes back to the House of Commons for it to be passed right in the EU the Commission decides what's going to be debated as laws and then the MPs in any peace tinker with it basically and then pasa I mean you couldn't make that up it's like if you lived in Britain in the House of Lords made all the rules basically it's literally backwards to what we have in the United Kingdom just saying it's a bit weird just say yeah it's all moved to France made this riots and pretty sure with all of that crap anyway we'll be back in him and I'm gonna play some news nights and find out Hosting's because clearly I couldn't see her Rebecca novella

Politics Live 27/06/2019



Oh you you it's Thursday it's 12:15 and we're live in Westminster joining me today labour Pierre Charlie Faulkner brexit Party MEP Belinda de Luci Conservative MP Antoinette Sam batch and telegraph leader writer Tim Stanley so what's going on today I don't think that's where we're going to end up I think it's a million-to-one against Boris Johnson may think the chances of no deal are slim but MPs are gearing up for another go at blocking it what should our artistic institutions be more careful about who they take money from and anger as an MP accused of anti-semitism is readmitted to the Labor Party he can now stand and we will have Jew haters sitting as Labour MPs under Jeremy Corbyn I'm frankly astonished that she could say such an outrageous thing as she did we'll talk more about that later on in the program but first of all let me show you our guests and our viewers a Guardian story which suggests as we said at the beginning that MPs may be going to vote to amend financial legislation that withholds cash to a number of key Whitehall departments in the event of leaving the EU without a deal Tory MPs will try to stop no deal brexit with amendment Charlie Fortner are we going to get a government shutdown well when you say a government shutdown if this motion is I've read about in The Guardian pass is then it means if there was no deal then there wouldn't be any money left for to spend on health and education that a member could come up shortly before you get to any idea of no deal so do you think we could get a government shutdown I think that some process will be developed in the Commons which in effect says you can only have no deal if Parliament has voted knowingly for no deal and that seems to me to be absolutely correct we should not default into no deal if there is going to be no deal it is something that the Commons should have addressed and voted for the precise procedural way that will be achieved I'm not sure but I'm quite sure procedural problems will not prevent there being that lock Belinda I think Parliament's got to be quite careful because people watching the game playing again to try and prevent No Deal you know we've already had three years of so many sort of little what many people say tricks to try and delay or stop brexit and just more of the same more delay when businesses are crying out for certainty when voters are crying out just to get it done I don't think it doesn't enhance Parliament's reputation by continuing this kind of game playing in in such a prestigious is that what it is game playing on toilet would you be one of those Conservative MPs who could amend legislation that would withhold cash to vital Department I'm not sure about that particular process but I made it very clear to my electorate that I would support a deal to leave the EU but I also made it clear and have made consistently clear that I will not support No Deal and the reality is is that the people that blocked us leaving were the most extreme know dealers and had they voted prior to the 29th of March for the deal then we would have left and I think it's wrong for 34 MPs to hold Parliament to ransom so I think there will be a process and I think that's the reality that the leadership candidates have to address which which they haven't and that's one of the reasons why I supported Rory Stuart's so I resent it bit being labeled as a trickster because actually I'm representing my constituents and and the Northwest stands to lose 80,000 jobs according to University of Sussex reports and a No Deal scenario that those MPs been called extremists these are MPs that are just honoring the manifesto they got voted in by another manifesto mister dust cup called extremists and rebels and and actually they're the ones respecting democracy and that's how people see it from the outside vote leaf were very clear and so were all that leave parties that it would be for Parliament to decide the manner in which we left and that was the basis on which the referendum was argued that it that that that how we would leave would be delegated and the only question was should we look in principle should we leave our membership of the EU and to try and twist the result afterwards is wrong I would argue Tim the Tory manifesto famously also said that no deal will be better than a bad deal so that's the basis on which those Euroskeptic MPs are arguing two things one people sitting outside of parliament might see this an attempt to hold the people hostage saying you withdraw funds from critical departments nor to prevent a no deal brexit are doing this can go down very badly there's one reason why I suspect it won't happen second it sounds a bit like these MPs are acting from weakness their problem is that they're running out of legislation that they can amend between now and October the 31st so rather than trying to just stop no deal they're trying to make no deal as bad as possible so that no Prime Minister could possibly want to do it beyond that they also have the option towards October if they feel it's necessary of a confidence vote to try to bring the government down in order to do that they'd have the support of some Tory MPs they might get that margin if the Tories lose the by-election in August all this mass is very complicated the point is that the room for manoeuvre of remain MPs is shrinking the closer we get to October the 31st should the matter be decided that sort of procedural model but it is the argument of Minas rightly is the Parliament of in the drive excited element must get this done surely with that and Parliament is itself running out of Road for what it can do whatever the public domain is this is actually most of the people who have supported preventing they No Deal have voted to leave yes so so it is not remained us as you classify us I voted for the dip for the prime ministers it's still three times and I really feel that it would be wrong for whoever's going to be leader of the prime minister to try and get round Parliament and I think we need to have a clear process that allows Paula justice I think they probably having said everything I've just said it may well be that they can't get around Parliament because eventually some legislation if you want to leave with a deal will have to be put to Parliament towards October and there'll be an opportunity to amend it then we will find out in around August or September how serious Boris is about leaving without a deal if he doesn't schedule that legislation if he doesn't then it means he wants to leave do you think they have got the bottle to follow through on their No Deal commitments both Jeremy Hunt and particularly Boris Johnson by October 31st personally I think it's almost irrelevant it's like the argument about pierogi apartment it's not a case of what you intend to do it's a case of what you refuse to take off the table because what both men want to do is force the EU to renegotiate the backstop so I I understand the question but I honestly don't think Boris or or Jeremy hunts actually Boris Johnson stops it yes sorry bro Johnson no Jeremy Hunt I don't think either of them wants no deal they just refuse to take it off the table because they see it as a negotiating term would you be prepared to vote against a Tory government in order to prevent No Deal if we're in September and no deal has been agreed I would be prepared to vote for amendments that would prevent no deal but if you're asking me in terms of a confidence vote and that we're bringing a Corbin government now I would you mean amendment to a no-confidence vote I mean amendments to legislation so I think there will be some procedural way yeah we will be able to prevent it in due course and I think I think that that process will be found it's not clear at the moment how we happen well let's just have a look at this from Diana Burt Labour MP front bencher because she has tweeted the Labour Party still haven't come forward with a clear unequivocal message in terms of whether they would back remain in a second referendum that they are supporting on any agreed deal dinah Burt has said and this is in response to somebody else saying like you I have supported Labour's brexit strategy so for so far I should say but like you I am beginning to worry bencher how can she say actually put it like that I've supported my party up till this point is a member of the Shadow Cabinet well she hasn't done it easily it sounds rushing we're in a new era where policy is debated in a very open way and that's not just the Labour Party but the whole of parliament appears to debate policy in a much less rigid way than previously but is she not saying we have got to be sure that we can stop no deal and the whole of this year has been people saying against mrs. May you're just trying to run down the clock and it's all got out of hand because mrs. May is now exiting stage left or stage right and two people whose position this is mr. hunter mr. Johnson it's completely unclear whether they really know what their own position is at the moment who were they going to negotiate with I mean nothing nobody between them reality is that there's no one there exactly the new Commission won't come into place until the first of November at the earliest and I think these promises that they're going to somehow through meeting people on some labs around Europe because there will be away on on their holidays negotiate this new deal I think it's fantastic what's the reason for saying you've got to do it by the 31st of October even though there is no president of the European Council even though there's no present the European Commission because I think he is saying what he thinks brexit ears want to hear and as we've learned over the last three years there's a big difference between what politicians are saying and what they actually do and the treaties they actually write up and that's what the brexit party are here to do in part use our platform to watch eagle-eyed over the next prime minister in terms of what he says to to placate the brexit ii as one side and then to impress the remain at the other side and and in the at the end of the day we don't know what he's going to do you don't trust Boris Johnson well we'll wait and see let's see can I just ask because you said very clearly that you wouldn't vote in a no-confidence motion brought by Jeremy Corbyn that might rusher in a Corbin government but let's say it was a no-confidence motion that you could win to stop no deal and there could be a different sort of government could be a different sort of Conservative government or or a government of national unity would you then do it in order to prevent it we're speculating now and I want to see whether or not we can find the procedure and processes before we get that moment to try and make sure that there is that we have the space to negotiate a proper deal or or give the candidates an opportunity to negotiate a deal and as we can see they can't do that before the 31st which inevitably means an extension or we have to have an opportunity for may's deal to come back to Parliament knowing that 26 Labour MPs have signed it saying that I would now support it let's move on because the Tory leadership candidates have been talking about things beyond brexit amazingly enough and they're planning something of what looks like a spending spree let's speak to Tom waters of the Institute for Fiscal Studies who have looked at both leadership contenders tax and spending plans Tom can you take us through the headline spending commitments for Boris Johnson first sure so the policies we've seen out of Boris Johnson mainly so far have been on the tax side so he's announced a significant increase in the high rate threshold so that basically benefits people with incomes over fifty thousand pounds a year he's also suggested he wants to increase the point at which people start paying national insurance contributions and so it's currently about eight and a half thousand pounds so any worker any more than that would gain gain from lats we haven't seen so much from him yet on on the spending side at least not in the way of sort of concrete proposals and your view on these spending proposals or tax proposals well what's clear is is these these policies don't come cheap the high rate threshold policy will cost about nine billion pounds the national insurance policy would be at least eleven billion and so we're looking at a fairly large increase in government borrowing if this sort of policy did come into place all right stay with us because we'll come back to talk about Jeremy Hunt's policies let me just show our guests this in the Financial Times because the article in The Financial Times goes even further in terms of spending proposals it's saying that Boris Johnson is eyeing up a public spending spree with Javid Sajid Javid who's obviously dropped out of the race as Chancellor in the region of a hundred billion pounds of infrastructure fund over five years Tim the Tories abandoned fiscal prudence in order to get brexit it was some time ago that that was abandoned quite a while ago when austerity was essentially ended under the may administration so this isn't a big change what those figures are quite a big change I mean they may have rhetorically said that austerity was over oh yeah I want must make distinction between analysis and comment here personally I'm into fiscal conservatism and discipline so I would disagree with this but the counter-argument is first of all that's safe take the middle-class tax cuts under the Tories it was the very well paid and the very poorly paid who tended to get tax cuts but a lot of people in the middle because of fiscal drag ended up paying more tax so there's an element of just evening up and making it fairer but also if you're gonna do brexit you need some supply and demand there you need to kick-start the economy and so the argument is that we've you know left a curve here when you cut taxes you tend to get more income if you cut taxes particularly things like the big corporation tax cut that Jeremy Hunt is proposing their new turbo charge the economy and that gets you through brexit so frankly whoever wins this contest whatever happens in the New Deal a deal or we stay the economy is probably going to slump a little bit and that's going to require some government action like tax cuts and spending is this the time to be giving middle-class tax cuts to quote Tim well I don't agree with that policy and I ah've Bora Stinson I think we should be looking at measures that will help the low-paid and reduce our tax credit budget which which releases up that money then to reinvest you know I like Tim I am a fiscal conservative but I also am someone who who would want to share the proceeds of growth and I think again one of the reasons why I backwards to it was that he made that commitment to response that old you said under my leadership will be realistic prudent and sensible yeah right so wouldn't they all say that but herb Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt abandoned that fiscal prudence well I think the reality is that unless we have a deal we that we know that there is some money set aside to deal with no deal but I would argue that we can only release that money well if there's a deal what do you make of the the spending pledges do you like the sound of those Belinda and also the tax cuts I think you know the Tories are in quite a dire situation they need to dangle a big juicy carrot to all their leave voters in the middle class section that they have I feel bad you like do you like the sound of them I'm fiscally conservative personally myself as well however I do think there needs to be quite a bit of economic creativity and vision around the next year or two as we are possibly heading for big change so I know I appreciate the vision there but and we'll just see if if it follows through I mean he's just trying to get the voters back as well for exit are you trying to do what are you offering I mean surely this is the time to criticize conservative economic policy what is the party's economically agree in fact on Sunday well we're having a rally of over five and a half thousand people and what are you telling them well that's when we are uncovering some of our policies there so if you'd like to come and listen it's two pounds fifty two come and join us so it'll be great to have you there on Sunday you know what they aren't well we've been talking a lot and getting together with fellow mu peace but also asking all our supporters we're doing a bottom-up discussion where we're taking their ideas and asking them what they feel and everything will be well I love the last time I have someone from the brexit party on I was also told there was going to be a rally where policies would be unveiled and obviously not the economic one so on Sunday after that we'll have a complete prospectus on the brexit part complete we are still only a few weeks old so and we do want to make a few weeks now but yes since April say yes a couple of months and I do think it's right to take our time over you might not have much we have to get it right and we do have people from a different you know areas of a political spectrum in our party and it's really good to to find out the common ground of common sense we have between us and some of our policies will be unveiled on Sunday that's very exciting and come on join us right what do you think Charlie listening to this because on the Jeremy Corbyn side in terms of anti austerity this as Belinda says could be a big carrot to voters what Linda's going to propose about the Tory policy as far as the hundred billion is concerned of capital expenditure I don't know what the detail of that is but that it's not a bad idea it seems to me infrastructure 110 billion the idea of saying taking nine billion of what Philip Hammond have said is a twenty six billion headroom that's a third and giving it to those who are currently on the highest band of tax and and knocking some of them out of that high band of tax seems a very very bad idea as I think everybody agrees the effect of austerity has been that poverty has gone up quite considerably because wealth benifits have gone down so surely the first thing you would do if you've said you've brought austerity to an end is say what you're going to do for those who have most suffered from austerity rather than saying to those who are in the highest tax bounds at the moment some of you are now going to go out of the highest tax path and it makes one doubt what do you mean when you say austerities come to an end so for example with with firms – Hunt's tax cut proposal yeah for corporations so I would really welcome the idea that that is that the lower rate of taxes paid by corporate by companies who pay their employees a guarantee living wage rather than a minimum wage and those proposals have been adopted in some other countries I think there's a Tempe difference on the tax rate for those companies that have a corporate responsibility towards their employees and paid them the living wage and I think those sorts of ideas about what about I mean the resolution foundation did a thing that indicated that child poverty had gone up dramatically since 2010 and the reason was because welfare cuts had been savage between 2010 2009 it's an indirect an indirect effect by corporation tax being reduced seems an incredibly slow way of bringing austerity to an end so it's relative to what its relative to the average wage so as and we just have been going up so as wages increase recently isn't it Antoine in but there has been a a freeze on the way that benefits rise which is lifting this this in the next financial year so I think we will see some pressure easing in that let's go back let's go back to Tom at the Institute for Fiscal Studies – tell us a bit more about the spending pledges from Jeremy Hunt and also Tom this idea that Tim said that some of these tax and spend policies will sort of pay for themselves yes so on the tax side first Jeremy Hunt is also suggested some sort of reduction in national insurance contributions but there's also this cut in the corporate tax rate so that's kering in nineteen percent he wanted to move it to twelve and a half percent that would cost something of the order of thirteen billion pounds now it probably would increase the amount of investment in the UK there's not really any chance of it paying for itself right Tim what do you say to that well as I said the beginning I'm actually a fiscal conservative so here I'm defending something but it is true historically that when you've had significant tax cuts they very often ended up generating more revenue than they had before I mean the most recent example was the very highest band was taken down and the government argues that as a consequence of people repatriating income staying in the country paying taxes here spending more etc et-cetera income actually ends up going up to the Treasury so that is the argument for it and personally what I would say at this stage in the contest is no one should be making specific pleasures about anything in fact do one two things either be incredibly specific because we need to know the exact details of things so for instance the immigration pledge on the pointes basis and does that mean you're getting rid of is it can be all points or is it going to be an element of short-term visas so either be really specific or don't be specific because as a prime minister you need a lassitude especially when you're entering a negotiation with the EU you know what their comments gonna be like in six months two years time so I think the idea of going to the selection right now and say anicut precisely this bans tax by this man businesses by this amount when you don't know what the fiscal picture will be in six months to a year time I think that's very foolish and it seems silly to me on the one how when it comes to brakes and negotiations everything's on the table but at this stage in the race the candidates are going out of their way to take everything off the tape well then 160,000 people in a particular sort of demographic primarily and they're aiming all their promises at them so you're getting this completely warped view of fiscal policy because it's only aiming at a small number yeah how many of these promises however specific they are the corporation attacks for business the higher rate of tax for those people who are in the higher band and want to get out of it how many of those will we see translated into a budget subsequent although where I would defend it there's no denying you about that the big difference between everything between labor and the tour is as tourists seen themselves as the party of work the reason why not addressing that's welfare she's because they see the way that people improve themselves is through work therefore they want a tax system but incentivizes or dimensional you keeps his mother on people with children at work all of these peoples who this little train has specifically identified what are you doing about them in the promises that your leaders are making they're not Miley are not a member of the case now that people are focusing in this contest much more on how tough you can be on brexit and when it comes to the economy you can afford to be a little bit more liberal because they're proving themselves to a Tory tribe in a different way well I think I think there is a lot of tough talk on break set and again that's why I supported two different candidate I I had a cat I supported a candidate that I felt was being open about some of the choices that our next leader is is going to make and until we know what that choice is I don't think you can make the spending promises because you don't know what Headroom you've got you don't know as Tim has said it's very clear and I on all the evidence that has been published that if there's a No Deal brexit it will have a substantial short to the economy and that's one of the reasons why I don't want that to happen you said you like the infrastructure there's a risk of labour being outmaneuvered here with its own purse from the it's costed 27 cornerman which had to profligate Tory soon-to-be Prime Minister's offer the hundred billion was it Boris or was it Jeremy Hunt Boris Johnson which was the suggestion I think it's I genuinely think it is a good idea to spend money sensibly and 100 billion does not sound remotely off the page in relation to that but I'm not sure it'll ever happen with Boris I think he suggested a review of hs2 and I know certainly that we need to look at HS 3 in the North yeah and I so that it's not including his hundred billion yeah exactly which are in which case it's not that bigger well it's still a big figure a figure plus HS 2 is hated by a lot of that hundred and sixty thousand people Suzy forager against it well Jeremy Hunt was born Jeremy Hunter said – you saying he's for that HS – or not we don't know it's being it's being reviewed okay use on a chest too we are not so keen on it I don't believe in the brexit Party in terms of it being again London to the north we're more focused on the infrastructure between the northern towns and instead of propping up London again and trying to get so much down to London we want to make mini London's in the north and have infrastructure between them rather than always between London I think as as far as I I know right let's go back to Tom at the IFS Tom listening to those pledges from Jeremy Hunt that could cost between 40 and 46 billion pounds according to you how how do you imagine he would fund that yeah I think that's a key question so a lot of that cost comes from increasing defense spending which cost something of the order of 15 billion pounds a year and so we're essentially looking at increases in spending and reductions in tax and so kind of logically what that implies is more borrowing from the government and so it looks like that's kind of the road that he's he's going down of course it could be funded by tax rises he hasn't mentioned so far all spending cuts elsewhere but at least on kind of the current set of policies that's what it looks like it would imply well I bet he won't be mentioning any tax rises and in this really if he wants to stand any chance of winning against or with Tory grassroots members but what do you think it would be one thing that doesn't pay for itself is more defense spending I think that's an economic role we can probably hurry up but under that's the Armed Forces probably do need modernization we do face new threats I've got problems with Irama I've got problems with Russia and we have commitments to make as part of NATO I think any candidate including probably the Labour one would be talking about defence increases the interesting question is where are they going to squeeze what were they not raised that's the sort of first specifics we need to get out of them in the next few weeks all right and thank you very much a Tom at the IFS let's move on because we're going to talk about the decision to readmit the Labour MP Chris Williamson he was suspended from the Labour Party for what they said were deeply offensive and inappropriate remarks which fell below the standards expected of a Labour MPs and makes it harder to deal with anteye am in the party but he's back in let's just remind ourselves of what Chris Williamson said at a Sheffield momentum rally which prompted his suspension that was Chris Williamson it resulted in his suspension from the party he's been readmitted we are still a party for an interview and they said no one was available we asked chris williamson himself but we're still waiting for a response from him we can talk to Tosh MacDonald who is a close friend of Chris Williamson former athlete president and councillor in Doncaster tosh welcome to the programme was it the right decision to readmit Chris yes I think it was the right decision to readmit Chris I think the body that looks at it is looked at it can come up with the decision that Chris should be allowed back into the party always suspension sure Billy what do you think Charlie I think it was the wrong decision I think it sends a terrible message about the Labour Party Chris was suspended for what was described as a pattern of behavior it wasn't just saying that the Labour was too apologetic he had over time aligned himself with people who had either been expelled from the party for anti-semitism or people who had committed under arguable anti-semitic acts for example he had signed a petition and and and circulated in support of a man called Gill ad Aksum we've been banned by Islington from playing jazz in an Islington venue what Gilad Atzmon had done he promoted Holocaust denial he blamed the Grenville tower fire on people he described as Jerusalem alights and he'd suggested that Hitler's attacks on the Jews had been in response to the Jews declaring war on Germany these are terrible anti-semitic things and when asked why did you do that he said oh he didn't realize but of course surely if you were petitioning Islington to let the jazz singer back the jazz musician back in you'd have found out why he'd been banned in the first place I think what the Labour Party's committee did today was wrong because they didn't even push it up to the full-blown disciplinary tribunal which must have been the minimum that should have been done right let's listen to Chris Williamson he's responded to those allegations that we've just heard they're from Charlie Faulkner well I heard what Holly Faulkner said and he mean what he said actually about me he claimed I'd signed a petition relating to somebody called Gilad Atzmon that's not true in fact I didn't sign the petition at all but I don't accept his assertion look Labor's an anti-racist party and you know we've defined by our anti-racist credentials the Labour Party were the backbone of the anti-nazi League in the nineteen seventies I mean Jeremy Corbyn the leader as a as a record second-to-none in standing up to all forms of bigotry and racism and you know we've obviously got to work together charlie first of all in relation to the petition in relation to Gilad Atzmon he supported that by social media so he may be right when he says he didn't sign it but he supported it secondly he's absolutely right about the Labour Party's role in relation to the ante not anti-nazi League what we did in the 70s as honorable conduct against racism gives us no free pass in relation to anti-semitism and what Chris has done is align himself with the anti-semitic and that is absolutely unacceptable right Tosh what do you say to that you've just heard a wealth of evidence that has been laid out by Charlie Faulkner and that Chris Williamson has given succor to people who've been expelled from the party for anti-semitism why should he have been allowed back in they should be allowed back in because Chris Williamson is somebody I know really well a good friend and comrade has not got a racist bone in his body and not a lot of bigoted bone in his body now look I'm proud act proud to have worked in the trade union movement for many years and I'm proud of my Union as look we just launched contracts would either between Parliament last wave and if I can be allowed to speak without being interrupted it without then what we've done with pals in Toronto we put out in workplaces we've worked against all forms of racism and bigotry and the way we've done now he's not when somebody said something wrong jumping down the throat having hysteria what we have done is we try to educate people educate people and what's wrong I mean I've been accused of anti-semitism or something I said which don't stay is empty so mentally we should have we should be educating people not witch-hunting people not having mass hysteria when have you right have you been reeducate Adana nuts as if you said something anti-semitic should chris williamson be re-educated before being allowed back into the labour party well we should all be reg acade if any of us are making mistakes we should be reeducate we shouldn't have a race after an audit or hysteria Halloween is about I said I said but I spoke at International Brigade memorial trust annual commemoration that I'm too young to remember Spain my Spain was the anti-apartheid movement and I said for people coming into the movement today the thing that internationalize is then Palestine but that I was social meet you know what role of being an anti-semite I don't know what they tell me about that all right Semitic right but the party has standards and the party said that Chris Williamson and let's talk about him because he is the the person who is being looked at today and been readmitted to the party and the party found he had breached standards why is it that only after a few months he's been readmitted to the party when Charlie Faulkner has said that actually it should have been taken much more seriously because he's backed people who have repeatedly made anti-semitic comments but again people who supposedly making anti-semitic comments we need we need a wider discussion on what is and what isn't anti-semitic because I give my example of what I said and I don't know what he's anti-semitic all right well would anybody doubt that it's anti-semitic to deny the Holocaust would anybody doubt its anti-semitic to blame the Grenville tower fire on quote Jerusem alights would anybody suggest it's an T it's not an Tyson it is anti-semitic to say that Hitler's actions against the Jews were a direct response to dues declaring war plain we're not being accused of anti-semitism and not knowing why well I can't wait I completely appreciate tosh that there may be legitimate issues about whether or not this is a legitimate in a particular case attack on the State of Israel which is within what is acceptable the things that Chris approved of or supported were not even in the same planet as those sorts of issues they were absolutely explicitly anti-semitic not what he said but the people he was supporting and that is the problem because it gives the strongest possible impression by letting him off with a rap on the knuckles that the Labour Party are perfectly happy for people as senior as Chris to line themselves up with anti-semitic s' Tosh well and I don't think Chris I don't think Chris would knowingly align himself with some views anti-semitic I don't believe that for one minute again we come back to educate not lynch mobs is that what this has been a lynch mob the Labour Party actually investigating Chris Williamson well the way the way the whole anti-semitism thing seems to come that ways if somebody says something wrong and then enters an attack a wave of criticism we should be educating people if somebody makes a mistake if what I said at the International Brigade event was wrong tell me why it's wrong and educators don't just Lynch isn't all right just one more thing Chris arranged for a film showing of a thing called the witch-hunt which is about Jackie Walker and Jackie Walker came to the Commons and she had been expelled by the Labour Party for conduct on becoming quite sure that's the precise allocate for Malaysian of the rule which is about her allegation that the Jews were responsible for the slave trade why was Chris promoting that event after Jackie Walker had been expelled isn't that lining up with somebody whom the Labour Party has thrown out for behavior that is anti-semitic but Jackie Walker Jackie Walker is a black Jewish woman and she has their opinions and she made those opinions now the party has gone through its procedures and she's been kicked out of the party when when I saw the film which which I think was a very well made film and asked some questions that need answering Jackie wall Cooper's still suspect at that point not expelled I don't know what Kris arranged to film either 20:19 we're going to stop it there the line is a little bit bad but thank you very much for joining us on the program are you doing your investigation is that continuing I step back when the equalities Commission stepped forward but I think it's going to take a lot of time the existence of the Equality Commission report is not making any difference to the way that the Labour Party appears to be dealing with it so I'm keen to see if I can do something to try and deal with what is an incredibly corrosive and indeed existential threat to the Labor Party what are you still in the labour party then because I very much believe in the things that the Labour Party believe in but I do not believe in anti-semitism right but your colleagues left a number of them partly over the issue of anti-semitism are you not giving succor to people within the party whom you think are anti-semitic I'm not giving succor to people who I believe to be on somatic and I'm not leaving right and that's definite that's definite all right and that's investigation by the equalities Commission of course is only the second investigation they've done into racism in a political party the first one was the BNP how does that make you feel ashamed but I think it's a good thing that there is such an investigation alright we're going to move on take a look at this poster it's the National Portrait Gallery advertising their portrait Awards sponsored by BP now it has angered a number of artists including our next gear she was going to come on to set now Paul Benny he signed a letter to the gallery's director Nicholas Cullinan arguing that the relationship between the gallery and BP should end welcome to the program why Paul um well in the politics imagine it's something similar but tell us what your problem is with the decision by the National Portrait Gallery well we're all beneficiaries of the fossil fuel industry and have been for generations and we're all sort of compromised in that respect but I feel that and this isn't about I think pointing the finger at one particular company or one particular director something out of the npg I mean this has been a generational thing it's been going on for a very long time but and I certainly benefited myself from association with with this particular prize even before BP were were involved it was the John player award if you remember yeah but they have set for about 30 years happening a indeed right so why so why now sort of raise this I finally got to a position and that has that many other artists where although we all understand how with with with arts funding being reduced year-on-year it becomes more and more difficult for artists to find or to find a way to exhibit their work unless it's with these big institutions who are sponsored by companies who we feel compromising in this case our environment and so as we all know this is a big issue for all of us so I am here I guess right this is this is something that goes beyond just confines of the National Portrait Gallery and that affects the soil it is a bigger conversation and there have been various artistic institutions that have severed links or refused donation most notably recently with the Sackler family Tim is this the right thing to do when arts funding is under strain and needs as much support as it can get it's a tricky question to us because one would hope that if anyone has integrity its artists to paint the world as they see it and to reflect in their work what they believe and if I felt as strongly as some artists feel about BP I would not feel comfortable in any way being associated with their money sometimes people like me on the right complain about whoa capitalism about corporations deciding to cut off sponsors and make apparently political decisions and we complained about that because they often make decisions that we disagree with but on the other hand I'm quite happy about the idea of capitalism and institutions becoming more ethical and thinking about what they do and who they give appetizing to and and who they take sponsorship from I'm not opposed to that I suspect that in 20 30 years time the idea of anything being financed by fossil fuels might be controversial I think the same we probably be true of big farming and there might be a number of other I think I think also we got to understand that the fossil fuel industry is still being subsidized to the tune of ten point eight I think nine billion yeah as oppose from there are subsidies that they received for fossil fuel and for renewables which is a fraction of that so you know I think that's changing year-on-year and I think it has things like that change their ability to have largesse decreases and and other companies will fill the gap like they renew their huge renewables industries for instance what do you think Belinda I think people need to have as much access to art as possible and that does come with funding so where is the funding going to come from is it going to be no tax payer or it's essential enough people get enough access to to all these incredible exhibitions and and where do you draw the line you know I totally respect and understand that you have your own red lines lines are always shifting through these this sort of morass you know you step onto the line which we all sort of agree with or certainly as artists anyway what the correct relationship then between private funding and arts institutions well I I think it's it's real that's a decision between the institution and its and its artists in effect and I mean I'm certainly one of a number of MPs that have signed a declaration requesting that our pension fund divest itself from fossil fuel investments and so I I do understand some of that the issues but I would also say in relation to some of the government subsidy if we if we get see see if we get proper carbon capture and storage we will need the oil fields in the North Sea in order to pump the carbon into them and therefore there is a little bit further down the line it is but if the important thing is to make sure that those lines are still open in order to do that in the most cost-effective way and Isis yes is that what's a little ism Tim well what it what is woke and what is actually what conserved is one which is freedom of choice the freedom of the choice of the company to say at the investor to say I'm not gonna invest in this thing the freedom of the institution to say I'm not going to take money and the freedom of the artist to say I don't want to exhibit here because I don't approve of that is a difficult thing for conservatives to square because we believe in freedom and sometimes people choose freely to make woke choices you've got 20 seconds are you saying that the that the National Portrait Gallery shouldn't take any money from BP at all you can make your choice but why should I'm those people should open that conversation up okay well we can all be participants and I'm gonna have to end the conversation well not end the conversation but certainly say goodbye to our viewers at this point bye-bye you well that's enough for now suppose no one think I did miss yesterday which I should have streamed which is democratic debate put this one on tonight so that might be able for talking alone I don't know what channel it's gonna be on well hopefully I'll cash the book at this time because I know what's on today well tomorrow morning I think it will be technically sweet notes were o'clock four o'clock so my that depends what's and it starts but a baby shyness on this one today and so she got bored was on the other one yesterday the quarry post it was like twenty them telling them on the stage was a bit mad I didn't really watch all of them to be fair and he called similar and questions times on today as well so we're gonna be doing Question Time normal time 10:35 so I will be around for question time later on so yeah have a good day everybody and I will see you later on

WATCH LIVE – Boris Johnson vs Jeremy Hunt in Conservative leadership hustings in Belfast



a short video from each of the campaign teams as well before you meet the candidates so without further ado let's watch Jeremy hunts little video the most striking quality about Jeremy Hunt was his unwavering commitment to get results I think perhaps part of that is to do with his background in business no matter what the obstacles were he was prepared to push through them he wanted to get results I've seen him deliver on the things that matter most to the British people he has credibility from all sides I trust him on brexit I'm known Jeremy for 40 years about 25 of those years we've worked together setting up various businesses though 30 days were absolutely about his determination and grit would never give up well I first met Jeremy I realized there was a man who actually was committed to making a difference in 2008 I lost my baby son Joshua as a consequence of serious failures in his care during my campaign to kind of uncover the truth about what happened I was struggling to be heard Jeremy really listened and entreated me was to breathing dad rather than a troublemaker I knew when this was somebody who was gonna change things my mum died quite tragically and poor caring mid staffs Jeremy was incredibly kind he saw the bereaved daughter behind the campaigner he saw people that mattered we have known Jeremy Hunt since the early 2000s he and his business partner buck started funding the education of children living with HIV in our community-based program Jeremy's generosity is sensed by a soul that desire to make a difference really drives that's never been about him it's always been about what he can do to help others the work is done we'll save the lives of countless babies and other families will not have to go through the kind of pain that we didn't often underestimate Jeremy because he comes across being such a light and generous an IT person and he is but remember hearing of warning the EU not to mistake British politeness Britain weakness and I don't that just about sums it up I was pessimistic about Louisville a little bit and I thought you know we couldn't mess this up over talking to Jeremy in the build up I said no you know we're a great country we can do this we have the right mindset the delivery was outstanding it also had this element of fun I know that Jeremy was very involved in getting that balance right he believes in Britain as a force for good in the world he shows strong values at the FCO and consistently good judgements negotiate toughing it out when things get really difficult keeping going having a vision those are the skills that we need in the primers is a unifier is somebody who can reach out to different groups of people my daddy was talking to fans politics should be about making difference in ordinary people's lives I'm German a huge difference to our lives he gave us hope and that for me was the main thing that he gave his hope until very very context ladies and gentlemen please welcome Jeremy Hunt thank you very much Ian who has been coming round the country with me and Boris and always looking very attentive at those videos even though he's seen there were a hundred times it's a huge pleasure to be I'm gonna stand in front actually it's a huge pleasure to be here this morning and last night after a very busy day campaigning I settled down to the penultimate episode of the last series of Game of Thrones and this was of course nothing to do with wanting to relax it was preparation for today because because of course you can be very proud of Game of Thrones being filmed here and in fact I was culture secretary in 2012 when we negotiated that TV tax credit with the Chancellor which bought the game of Thrones series here 150 million pounds of investment I'm slightly less proud of all the blood and gore and guts that you see in that programme but I'm proud to be here for another reason which is that as foreign secretary I go all over the world and whether it is Yemen or Burma or Israel Palestine people look at the peace process here as a shining inspiration of what is possible and I know back home people worry about the fragility of it but I want you to know how proud I am and how proud the world is as to what was achieved here that very very significant moment in our country's history and I'm standing here because I want to change our country for the better to govern is to choose and I have four priorities that I want to change and I'm going to tell you those four priorities but we can't do any of them until we sought brexit and yesterday I met representatives from the Northern Ireland Farmers Union the food and drink Federation people from the border towns around noori and they talked to me about their concerns about a No Deal situation not least the fact that 60% of the provinces exports go through the republic of ireland and that is one of the reasons why yesterday I announced a six billion pound support package for businesses particularly farmers and the fishing community to help us weather No Deal if that is what we end up with but I want to tell you that that would not be my first choice and indeed it's not the real choice in this election because both candidates have said that we have to leave the European Union that was the Democratic decision and both candidates have said that we have to leave without a deal if if that's the only way to do it the choice we have is who is the Prime Minister we sent to Brussels who has the best chance of negotiating a deal of avoiding those difficult choices that we would face in a No Deal situation and if you choose me I'll be the first Prime Minister who's ever had a background as an entrepreneur I'm sure there are lots of people here who started their own businesses what do we do when you start a business you negotiate and negotiation is what I want to do for our country to get the best possible brexit outcome and then the excitement starts so I'm just looking at the clock here because mr. Dale here will give me a big ticking off if we go over but my four priorities the first is as someone who set up their own business I want to fire up our economy I want to turn it into the most pro-growth Pro Enterprise fastest most green most high-tech economy anywhere in the world we have some of the best universities in Europe some of the best in the world we could be the world's next Silicon Valley here in Northern Ireland you know that because you have 40,000 people employed in the creative industries a huge achievement and a huge opportunity so that's number one number two I am the foreign secretary who wants our country to walk tall in the world my dad was in the Navy we followed him all over the country and I passionately believe that Britain is one of the few countries that stands up for democratic values and the security needed to underpin them so I've said I will increase our defense spending to beyond 2% of GDP to send that signal to the world that at the point of brexit Britain is here Britain is back and our voice is going to be strong in the world my third priority is one that is actually a devolved matter but I want to tell it to you because it says something about our values as a party which will be important here in Northern Ireland I was health secretary responsible for the NHS in England for nearly six years and we as a Conservative Party have to have a social mission as well as an economic mission and I find it deeply troubling that nearly 1/4 of our primary school leavers leave unable to read or write properly and I want us to be the Conservative government that abolish –iz illiteracy and makes a promise that every single young person will leave the education system with the rigorous qualifications necessary to get a decently paid job and the forth of my four priorities is actually one for the Conservative Party itself we have got to get more young people supporting us we can't be the party of aspiration if the most aspirational people in our country don't vote for us so I make a promise that we will go for young people with a whole series of policies and of course why did Corbin do so well at the last election because he got young people to support him we need them supporting us and I will never ever ignore the biggest threat facing British politics which is a Labour Party led by the most dangerous ruthless anti Western anti British hard left cabal that we have ever seen in British politics get this wrong and there will be no Conservative government no brexit maybe even no Conservative Party get this right and we will deliver brexit unite our party unleash the potential of our great country and send Corbin packing and that's what I'm going to do thank you very much on my way here from the airport I asked my taxi driver what would he ask the both of you if he had the chance and he said how is it justified for politicians installment to be paid a salary when they're not actually doing anything how are you better placed than your opponent to get the assembly and executive up and running again well you're about to hear from Boris so you can you can ask him that question but how would I do first of all it is totally unacceptable that politicians who are paid to run the NHS to run the schools to promote inward investment are not turning up to work and doing their job and you know we have to be absolutely clear this is a big abdication of responsibility and they need to get back to delivering what was a fundamental tenant of the Belfast Good Friday Agreement which is that devolved assembly what would I do as Prime Minister well I think the lesson of that historic achievement back in 1998 is that the only way to do this is with the personal involvement of the Prime Minister and I think we need to have a prime minister who is prepared to put in the time to really make this happen I think Theresa May has been very committed to Northern Ireland and to the Union but I give you this commitment that I – as Prime Minister will put in the time personally to get that assembly back up and running I think both sides need to understand that personal commitment from number 10 why do you think it hasn't happened so far getting it back up and running the talks now I think I'm right in saying if these latest talks are being going on for 10 weeks not sure there's a huge sign of any progress well I think there the fact that the talks are happening after the tragic murder of Lera McKee is a step forward from from where we were you know there are of course the things that trigger these walkouts but in the end it's about building up trust between the sides now we have an opportunity we have two sides that are talking and I would do everything in my power to get those talks to come to fruition um back stop do you recognize that the back stop in its current form doesn't have the support or consent of most units and therefore breach is one of the fundamental tenets of the Good Friday Agreement what what would you do about that well I do recognize that we are never going to have a deal to leave the EU with the backstop and so it has to change or it has to go and the fundamental issue with the backstop is not the principle that we shouldn't have border infrastructure on the island of Ireland I think that's accepted by all sides in the Conservative Party by the DUP by everyone who's been involved in this debate the principle is the backstop which traps us into following EU customs tariffs until the EU give us permission to leave the customs union and you know for a brexit vote that was about bringing back sovereignty to Parliament that is not acceptable I was one of the people who argued against accepting that backstop in cabinet but I think it's important that a Prime Minister has a loyal foreign secretary so I kept those discussions private but that has to change and we have to find a different solution and I think it will be a technology LED solution what the Germans call an invisible border we are rapidly understanding the potential of technology now and I think the work done by Greg hands and Nicky Morgan in the alternative arrangements Commission is the basis of the solution but the EU keep telling us that the technology isn't there they do and I think one of the reasons they tell us that is because frankly it would be easier for them and better for them if we stayed inside the customs union so we have to negotiate a way to resolve any difference of opinion some arbitration mechanism that would resolve how you solve a situation where there's a disagreement about what technology can do but both sides agree that if technology can do it's the way forward I believe it is and I don't actually think it needs new technology I think we can do it with the technology we have there used to be a phrase that many conservatives uttered some years ago saying you the conservative party should not out Faraj Faraj now yesterday you made a speech where you've been accused of trying to out Boris Boris you've become very very brick city all of a sudden some people are saying that's another flip-flop not at all and the position that I outlined yesterday is the position that I've been arguing for in the cabinet as foreign secretary for the last year of I've always thought we need to go further and faster on No Deal preparations and that there is a difference between Boris and my position I don't think it's as big as people maintain but basically I've said if we get a deal and it needs a few more days to get through Parliament at the end of October I wouldn't rip that up because I think it would be much better for everyone but particularly in Northern Ireland to have a deal and he has taken an absolutist position on that date but both of us have said that if there is no prospect of a deal then we will leave without a deal and I would do that because you know when I go around the world and people tell me what it is they like about Britain it is that we are one of the oldest most robust most established democracies in the world and what does that mean we're a country where people like me do what people like you tell us to do and that's why we're not just going to do brexit but we're going to make it a terrific success but you've accused Boris Johnson of imposing a fake date of October the 31st but yesterday you impose one of your own the 30th of September saying if there was no prospect of a deal by then then we would leave under No Deal what's the difference between imposing these two deadlines well the reason I say it's a fake debate about the 31st of October is because both of us have got the challenge that Parliament is trying to take no deal off the table and doesn't matter who's Prime Minister if Parliament takes that option off the table then it's off the table but why did I talk about the end of September because I want to give the EU a reasonable amount of time to consider new proposals made by the new British prime minister when they have done that the Prime Minister needs to make a judgment as to whether there's a deal there that can get through Parliament I don't think it'll be just the Prime Minister making that judgment I think we'll all know I mean the EU seem to come back pretty quickly if they're not prepared to countenance a negotiation I believe they will but if they don't then there's got to be a moment when we say okay the talking's over heads down we're going to prepare for no deal and that's why the package I announced yesterday included I think the biggest package of business tax cuts that we've ever had in our country's history designed to help businesses like the small business that I set up weather the storms that you would get with No Deal so that we can get through to the other side do you think abortion and same-sex marriage should be legalized in Northern Ireland and if the assembly didn't vote it through should the UK Parliament do it on equality and human rights grounds well these are deeply personal issues if I was Northern Irish I would want the law changed in both those areas this is a devolved matter and I think the best way to resolve this is to get the assembly back up and running and to establish a consensus in the province so that we can go forward on these very difficult issues Sara canning Leverett Lehrer maki's partner said that the biggest tribute that could be paid to her is for the UK Parliament to intervene and introduce same-sex marriage in Northern Ireland what's your response to that well I sincerely hope the law does change but when you change the law on an issue like this you do need an element of social consent and I would like to see the Assembly have a look at that issue in detail first before any decision was taken along those lines all I will say is that opinions and we see opinions change very dramatically in England since that law changed to widespread acceptance of this as being the right way to go so I hope it happens but I think it's something where we need to take the population with us do you think it's about time the Conservative Party organized properly in Northern Ireland what I want conservatives to be standing up for our values everywhere and I want to salute the people in this room because it is tough for all of you and to be a conservative in in a part of the country where we don't have any MPs at all shows particular commitment to our cause so I will back you as Prime Minister it's a long journey but I would love to see Conservative MPs conservative Assembly representatives in Northern Ireland because we are a United Kingdom and I would like the party of the Union to be represented in every part of our United Kingdom here's the the final lighter question for me which I know you always look forward to you mentioned Game of Thrones a minute ago which Game of Thrones character do you most identify with well um I'm not gonna say something cliche like Jon Snow but what I'm going to just tell you is that the best story I heard about Jon Snow was that about Kit Harington who's the character who plays for those who don't watch Game of Thrones the kind of the hero is that he was apparently stopped for speeding in the province and the police officer said to him now there's two things that I can do either I can give you a speeding ticket or you can tell me if you come back to life in the next episode of Game of Thrones there's a great story of actually giving an answer by that anecdote oh go on then Jon Snow trying for questions from the audience who would like to ask the first one first one here second one there Jeremy you conclude your speech there by stressing your commitment to the Northern Ireland conservatives but yesterday you did mention in a speech that a quote here a new political negotiating team will be convened with members of the ERG the DUP members of the one nation group Welsh on Scottish Conservatives know there it's I think it's quite noticeable that we are conspicuous by our absence yet the dup are not negotiating group perhaps you could elaborate than that of course there's a very simple reason for that that negotiating team that I'm assembling is the negotiating team that we need to get a majority in the House of Commons in order to get a brexit deal through one of the reasons why unfortunately the negotiations stopped with Theresa May was because the EU stopped believing that the British government could deliver the British Parliament and so they said why should we make any concessions if it's not going to make any difference in Parliament so we need to persuade the EU that we have a coalition that can get a majority through Parliament and we do depend on that partnership with the DUP but also with the brexit purists in the conservative party the ERG and also I've included Scottish and Welsh conservatives in that list because I want their concerns to be properly addressed but it's simply about getting the parliamentary arithmetic we need to renew that deal with a DUP because we need a majority in parliament I would infinitely prefer us to have conservative MPs in Northern Ireland so that we didn't need to depend on another political party for that majority but but you know to govern is to accept the world as it is and then to campaign to make it better and that's what I hope we can do it cost the taxpayer a billion pounds last time there's still three years to go in this Parliament are we going to see something a similar sum we we have that agreement with the DUP we paid the money and I would like them to do their bit and help us get a brexit deal through let me leave it at that Paul Paul McGann he'll have the north dying Conservative Association will you be able to pledge Mr Hunt that there will never be a separate Northern Ireland only referendum on the issue of the backstop and that in relation to brexit that northern Iran will be treated in exactly the same way all the other parts of the United Kingdom yes and you know let me be clear I think that is the heart of the difficulties that we've had with the current deal is a fear that the backstop which the Northern Ireland business community on the whole welcomes but unionists in Northern Ireland feel concerned by because they worry that it would either risk different regulatory environment for Northern Ireland to the rest of the UK which would be a barrier for the Union or it could mean the whole of the UK had to follow EU regulations which could weaken the commitment to the Union in the rest of the UK so for that reason we have to change the backstop I think it's very important to remember that Northern Irish trade with GB is more than Northern Irish trade with the Republic of Ireland the EU and the rest of the world put together so we can never have any barriers to trade between Northern Ireland and Great Britain right gentlemen at the back followed by lady in the middle no good morning can you tell us Jeremy and you did say 100% commitment to conservers in Northern Ireland and we have had consecutive PM's party chairs and Secretary of State's doing the CM can you specify what support and how you would help controllers adorn their own well I am I happen to believe that the union is something that we have taken for granted for too long and when I think about the Scottish independence referendum in 2014 I believe we were complacent in the run-up to that referendum and we had a nasty scare during that campaign when it looked like it was getting very close but I think we've been complacent after it and I think it's absolutely essential that the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom puts a lot of time and thought into nourishing the bonds of our union and some of that is through symbolic things like coming here frequently and supporting the Northern Irish Conservative Party which I'm absolutely committed to do but some of it is also through the approach you take to policies and I think that brexit if we get it right can massively strengthen our union because it will allow our great country to plow its furrow in the world in a way that is distinctly uniquely British and makes all parts all the four parts of the UK proud to be British but we've got to get there and we've got to get there with a deal that makes that possible and that is my commitment that is the deal I'll negotiate would you ask your party chairman though to you actually create a better infrastructure for the Conservative Party here I suspect that was more what the gentleman was really implying in that I think certainly friends of mine in Northern Ireland say that the Northern Ireland Conservative Party feels completely cut off from the main Conservative Party and doesn't get that level of support well I'll be very open to doing that if you tell me what you think needs to happen that's something I would certainly happily consider north nod and benefits greatly from EU funding especially the voluntary sector yes there's still been no public consultation on the shared prosperity fund or Treasury guarantees for peace plus I'm just wondering what you attend intend to do if you do become party leader well I think we absolutely have to maintain our commitment to all four parts of the UK obviously when we're not making contributions to the EU we will be saving around nine billion pounds a year and we will be able to make up for some of the shortfalls from parts of the UK that have received funding and you know I'd want to do that in a way that was fair but the more important point that I want to make to you as a fellow conservative is that we need to demonstrate to the whole country that we are not just the party of London and the South East which are our heartlands because we can never win a general election and s people see a real commitment to the whole of the UK of course that includes Northern Ireland the package that I announced yesterday of no deal support would have a particular focus on Northern I because this is one of the parts of the country that we most affected by no deal but that approach has to follow all our infrastructure investments all our support for university research and it has to be part of everything we do how am i strong I very much liked what you said about getting young people more involved with our party because I think we should be the party of the young as a student from Northern Ireland he studies in Hull there's this particular I'd like to ask you about and as health secretary for previous house faculty I think interesting incident what do you think about the possibility of being able to allow students to register at more than one GP so as someone like me here's my home for three months could go to a GP if I need to well I'm at home well that is a impressively detailed and specific question and I've got the answer to but I'm not sure it's gonna be quite enough to get all young people to vote conservative but but but the answer to that question is of course we need people to be able to use GPS anywhere they go in the country and and that includes to different parts of the UK and the way to solve that is something that I championed as health secretary which is to have an electronic health record which means that it's just incredibly easy for a GP anywhere you go to log into your details and with your permission of course and then you can get the treatment you need wherever you go and so that's how I would do that but in terms of how I attract young people more generally if I could just mention I think there are some specific things in an English context that really bother young people like the interest rate on tuition fees the difficulty of getting onto the housing ladder which I'm sure is an issue here but it's a devolved matter but I think there are also what you might call values issues things where young people just need to know that we're on the same side and we get where they're coming from and probably the biggest of those is climate change we have done an enormous amount over the last nine years in fact we've done more than any other major economy if you look at our growth since 1990 our GDP is 70% higher and our carbon emissions 40% lower and there's nowhere else that comes near that in terms of big economies but the truth is it's not enough and we need to be able to answer the enough question for young people because they look at people like me and they say you know we're gonna be around in 50 years time and even with the aging population you may not be and so we want to know that planet's gonna be safe no helicopter landed after a climate change our answer which Gillian Carlile when Boris was answering a climate change emergency question a helicopter landed and it turned out to be Jeremiah right lady there and then the gentleman that Felicity Houston East Belfast and Jeremy you were talking quite a lot about particular with your experience of foreign secretary of getting Britain back on the year at the world map in the position we should be in and using our soft and hard power and but I'm particularly wondering how you see we would work with our relationship with China which for the past few years we have been dazzled by their economic power but blind to what they are doing to their own people and I'm now thinking particularly in the case of Hong Kong where the young activists there are begging the British government to come and speak on their behalf and I fear we have a certain moral duty to the people of Hong Kong and it reminds me a little bit of what happens here we are often forgotten about and it seems the same thing as being is exactly happening in Hong Kong because economically it's not a good idea to upset the Chinese so I do wonder how you would take us forward to a respectable relationship with a superpower like that and particularly there was people in Hong Kong thank you well thank you Felicity fryer yes that's Thank You felicity for asking that question and I was asked this last night on on Sky News actually and I said that I'm someone who's never had to fight for my freedom my dad was in the Navy and thanks to the service of his generation we won the Cold War so they knew what it was like to put their lives on the line for the values that we believe in China is a very very important country we can't stop its growth and we shouldn't want to because they're lifting a lot of people out of poverty and it's a it's a huge success story and of course we want to benefit from trading opportunities with China and we wish them well but we can never compromise on our values and the first time I met the Chinese Foreign Minister last August Hong Kong was one of the issues that I raised with him and I'm afraid since then things have got worse and I gave a statement to the media this morning in which I said that none of us support the violence that we saw on TV last night but we do understand the reason for people's anger and the reason for people's fears that their basic freedoms are going to be taken away and so the way to address this issue is not by repression or any heavy-handed tactics by the Hong Kong government but understand the root causes of those concerns including that extradition bill which quite understandably people feel could mean that if they speak their mind politically which of course is one of the great freedoms they have in Hong Kong they could get shipped off to China and get sent to prison so you know we do want calm there but we want the government of Hong Kong and the government of China to understand that what makes Hong Kong special the freedoms of its people what can we as a country actually do I mean we are the fifth largest economy in the world you just pay tribute to try China saying was a tremendous success story which in economic terms it may be but certainly not in human rights terms but what can we do apart from I mean you tweeted the other day saying our support for Hong Kong is unwavering you put it in in capitals which is significant on Twitter but in practical terms what can the UK government do well Hong Kong is part of China and you know we have to accept that but the freedoms in Hong Kong are enshrined in a joint declaration signed by Margaret Thatcher and Deng Xiaoping in 1984 and that is an internationally binding legal agreement between our two countries and what I said then and what I said again this morning is that we expect that legally binding agreement to be honored and if it isn't there will be serious consequences which would be well I think you know you have to allow me some latitude as Foreign Secretary to make a decision on that when the appropriate time comes but I want to be absolutely clear to answer Felicity's question that our values are not negotiable and that we expect all countries to honor their legal agreements with the United Kingdom right gentlemen they're followed by gentlemen of the background good morning urban Armstrong two questions one's very simple will the Northern Ireland Sackett restate remember a remain a full member of your cabinet and the Satan question is you have laid very heavy emphases on how good you are in negotiations and what you can do can you negotiate a deal that will allow Northern Ireland to trade with the EU and the UK and to take part in any future UK trade deals at the same time the answer to both of those is yes but to the second one whilst we are going to need to negotiate the deal that you're talking about I don't want to pretend this is going to be easy it is going to be very challenging but nor is it impossible and I think if we take the right approach to this the right deal is there for us and why do I say that because when I talk to other European leaders they want to solve this problem as well they say that this is a problem for Europe as well as a problem for the UK they don't want a No Deal brexit and so I think if we take the right approach if we send them a prime minister that they're willing to talk to they will give us a hearing and I think there's a chance of a deal I think there's a deal to be done but I don't want to pretend that it's not going to be bumpy getting back hi Jeremy just one question like you asked Nigel Faraj has shown himself to be a highly competent operator we need all the assistance we can get is there any chance of his expertise being tapped into well the question was asked in a very seductive way but I'm afraid I'm going to disappoint you and say no and the reason I'm going to say no is apart from all the many issues that people might have about some of the characters that surround Nigel Faraj he wants a different outcome he wants he wants a WTO brexit he wants a No Deal brexit and I think for Northern Ireland it would be infinitely better to get a deal and that's what I'm going to negotiate who are these shady characters surrounding our Jeffress we don't need to go into that now but well Ann Widdecombe is a great conservative politician she should be with us right thank you James roofie North dine Jeremy I was very pleased that you as foreign secretary initiated a review of the persecution of Christians throughout the world and also I saw on Sunday that Prince Charles has identified himself very much as this cause what more can we do to help these suffering brothers and sisters particularly in the in the Middle East at the moment where they are being eliminated in many areas of the other that the aunt where they grew up James thank you for asking that question I think we've had a bit of a blind spot in British foreign policy we champion freedom of religion all over the world I think of the the rahega Muslims in Burma for example who suffered the most terrible persecution but whether it's because of political correctness or a sense of awkwardness about our colonial past and the missionaries I don't know but the fact is 80% of the people around the world were persecuted for their faith are Christians and they aren't wealthy Westerners they're often very poor people and you mentioned the Middle East the population Middle East used to be 20 percent Christian now it's just 5% and when you look at some of the terrible murders that happen in countries like Afghanistan Libya Egypt what I notice is that often these things are happening in countries that we give a lot of aid money to and so the question I want to ask is are we using the influence we have to try to protect people who just want to worship their own God our God my God in freedom and that's what we should be championing so I've asked the bishop of to do a review as to what more we could do in the foreign office and I'm hoping that we'll publish that review next week that question brings an end to our time with Jeremy hunt ladies and gentlemen um I very rudely didn't actually introduce myself at the beginning for those of you who don't know me and Dale I present the LBC evening show each evening I know many of you are listeners as you've been telling me in the run-up to this event now we are now going to watch Boris Johnson's campaign video before we meet him yes of course you can if I get in will come out a lot of teachers tell me that they've got they've got it they feel that the funding safe big city was when I used to run it I can tell you we got crime down by people and I might another murder it down I also think we need to be supporting the the wealth graders in the business sector because otherwise you're not gonna have them the doctor to invest it's cut some taxes and you get money it would you normally think of yourself as a conservative voter would you say no car skewed a terrible question would you consider voting for me yes if there is one lesson from that referendum of 2060 it is the too many people feel left behind that they're not able to take part fully in the opportunities and success of our country that's why now is the time to unite our society and unite our country to build the infrastructure to invest in education to improve our environment and to support our fantastic NHS to lift everyone in our country and of course also to make sure that we support our wealth creators and the businesses that make that investment possible now's the time for us to believe in ourselves and what we can do and that's why I am standing to be leader of the Conservative Party ladies and gentlemen please welcome Boris Johnson [Applause] good afternoon everybody good afternoon thank you very much for coming fantastic to see somebody here last time I was speaking to the Conservatives in in Northern Ireland was in Bangor many years ago any veterans of that occasion here I don't know I'd anywhere there are but I can tell you it was a it was a time when our party was pretty much down in the dumps and everybody said that we were facing a resurgent and very dangerous Labour Party and of course they were they were right then they were right then but I'm afraid that there are huge differences between then and now and yes it's true that our party is facing difficulties but we can turn it round and we can turn it round by Oh me come back and we're to win by Duke we can turn around by doing three very simple things number one we've got to get brexit done and we've got to get it over the line and we've got to get it done by October the 31st and come out of the EU and that believe me will be a major relief to politics across the whole of the United Kingdom and there are there are several things we need to do we need to make sure we look after our friends of European Union citizens who are here we need to make sure that we don't give that 39 billion pounds away too cheaply and that we suspended in a state of creative ambiguity above the talks until such time as we get an agreement and of course we need to sort out the problems of the Northern Irish border where those problems should be sorted out in the context of the free trade deal then we're going to do after we have left on October the 31st and I think it's absolute vital here in Northern Ireland to stress two things and number one that we will under no circumstances have a hard border there will be no physical checks or infrastructure at the border in Northern Ireland and number two we will make sure we have a an exit from the EU a brexit that allows the whole UK to come out entire and undivided and we keep our union absolutely intact and we can do it we absolutely can do – I'm determined to do it as I say by October the 31st and one of the pledges I have made is that if I'm lucky enough to be successful in this contest I will be not only Prime Minister and first of all of the Treasury and Minister for the civil service but I will also be Minister for the Union in which I passionately believe because there everywhere I go around the world I meet people who who don't identify our amazing country as England or Ireland Northern Ireland or or Scotland or Wales they they think that we are the United Kingdom and they see our brand the UK as being far far more powerful as the some of our far more powerful than the sum of our parts and I I think they're right and we should fight for that Union and we should defend it and protect it and I think the second thing that we need to do obviously is to get our mojo backers conservatives and to believe in our calls to believe in wealth creation and to stand up for the moral force of our political ideas because they're the right ideas and I think if we support the wealth creators and the entrepreneurs and the business community then we'll have the tax that we need to pay for fantastic public services and a great education infrastructure and all the rest of it I think people understand that and they can understand the fundamental balance and and symmetry at the heart of our conservative agenda and I think if we get our mojo back and we believe in ourselves again as a Conservative Party then of course I think that we will be able to take the fight to the enemy in there and talk to our opponents and there are there are two parties at the moment that are prospering mightily from in the whole of the UK from our failure to get breaks it over the line there of course the brexit Party and the Liberal Democrats and once we've done that we'll prick those two buff balls as it were and lots of voters who are currently with them we'll come back to our party and that will put us in a much better position to do what I think we really all want to do and that is to get ready to defeat Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party and it's utterly vital that we do that because you all understand I I think the the economic disaster the Jeremy Corbyn in the Labour Party would present for our country I mean the guide is you know he's or he backs Hamas and Hizballah and he seemed to side with the mullahs of Tehran the other day rather than with our allies in the United States when it came to the dispute over what was happening in the in the Persian Gulf quite quite incredible I went when the screep out poisonings took place in Salisbury he seemed to be wanting to give Moscow the benefit of the Durbin and if you remember that and it's it's it's even worse than that this is a guy who would who would as I think everybody in this room understands who would favor a united Ireland and who would break up our union and worse than that who has in the past been quite shameless in his support of the agenda of the IRA and who is in John McDonnell has actually condoned the armed struggle as he calls it of the IRA and the bombs and bullets of the the terrorists and I think for that reason alone he should be kept away from from number 10 to say nothing of the economic disaster he would cause and this is a guy who would put up taxes on just about everything from income to pensions to corporation tax financial transaction tax inheritance tax even the garden tax he would impose on this country he had to pull to pay for a deranged plan of reen a tional ization costing 300 billion pounds he would be a political moral catastrophe he'll be an economic catastrophe for our country he would break up precious union and we cannot let him anywhere near number 10 and in fending him off as I believe that we can if we get brexit done if we re energized our party as I'm sure that we can I believe I'm the best guy to be unleashed on that project because I would just remind you that the last time we faced last time I faced in an emanation of the London labor left I came from behind to defeat him a considerably while eeeh and more devious customer by the way than other than Jeremy Corbyn I defeated him when our party was 17 points behind labour in the polls in London we did it then we can do it again and with your help and support we will thank you all very much [Applause] on the way here I asked my taxi driver what he would want to ask the both of you and he said how can it be justified paying members of the Northern Ireland decide when they haven't executive back up and running again well I think they need to get back round the table as fast as possibility to they need to be sorting this thing out and I and I good reason for that I speak as a former leader of a city government in in London and you you need you need when you have local business when you have local communities that require proper representation you need somebody to stick up for their economic interests and to champion them and to move that society forward and it can tweet this the current drift is isn't is not right for Northern Ireland and I would urge all sides get on with it restore Stormont and get it get it over the line what do you put that drift down to well I think that there are various difficulties that they there are some sensitive issues on or on on either side and we all know roughly what they are and we all know that they need to be addressed with common sense and andr tact and with sensitivity but there is scope for compromise to get it done but it's taken two years what can you bring to it to really galvanize it well I think that they have the I will do whatever I can personally to energize and and direct the the talks and to try to bring people together but I think that what everybody needs to do is to recognize that it's the it's the citizens and the voters of Northern Ireland who are losing out as a result of this failure to to get together and I hope they'll get on with it um moving on to brexit do you recognise and the backstop in its current form doesn't have the support and consent of most unionists and therefore breaches one of the fundamental tenets of the Good Friday Agreement what will you do about that well I think that the as I've said many times the the the backstop presents a prime minister of the UK with an absolutely unacceptable choice between abandoning our ability to govern ourselves in the sense that we would the UK would have to submit EU law on tariffs and EU law on on regulations with no say on though on those rules or alternatively to give up control of the government of Northern Ireland and that is clearly unacceptable and that's a choice that I totally reject as I've said before if I you know the the Union comes first of course but I believe that we should not be faced with that choice and the solution must be for the whole UK to come out in its entirety from the EU and to and to find the solutions that are needed for frictionless trade across the border in the context of the free trade deal and we can and you know Michel Barnier and others have said that those solutions are there and indeed they have said that they wouldn't impose a hard border themselves and they're quite right I think it'd be the lunacy to do so they it is in the withdrawal agreement they say they're not going to reopen the withdrawal agreement or make any changes to the backstop how can you persuade them to do that well I think that the withdrawal agreement as it currently stands is a dead letter and you know as I said there are bits there are useful bits in it the provisions on citizens can be taken out they can be disaggregated they could be they can be used we should be passing those through the House of Commons anyway in a super rogatory way but the the money as I say is is is quite a lot but the the question of the of the backstop and don't forget the reason why we have it is that it was basically devised with the support if not the instigation of the British side partly because there are there are many who who conceive that the relationship that they wanted with the EU was one where we stayed in the customs union and in full regulatory alignment even though that made a nonsense of brexit and so what the what the backstop really represents is I'm afraid the incoherence at the heart of the strategy that we've been pursuing over the last few years we've been wanting to come out of the of the EU supposedly whilst actually being prepared to stay in the customs union and in full regulatory alignment when that is tantamount to coming out of the EU but being run by the EU and and so what I think people in this country want is to come out there's a whole UK solve the issues of the of the backstop in the context of the FTA and use the opportunities that brexit brings us to do things differently Wow where that is necessary and where that is exciting for business and industry well that's what we should be doing what would you say about the idea that maybe a temporary solution would be to have a snap referendum in Northern Ireland on a temporary membership of a customs union in order to get the EU snap will need people's patience I guess I think I think you know I really can't we've been we had a referendum issues were very extensively debated let's get on and and deliver on the mandate of the people because if we don't believe me my fellow conservatives it's great to see so many here we will we will continue to hemorrhage support in in our country and up the Conservative Party will not recover as a fighting force until we get brexit done an over line and until we get it done properly believe me do you think that abortion and same-sex marriage should be legalized in Northern Ireland and if the assembly doesn't vote it through should the UK Parliament do so look I think that this is pre-eminently a matter for the people of Northern Ireland and that is why risk of sounding like a crack record I want the hope that the government of Northern Ireland can be resumed as soon as possible so that this issue can be decided in the forum where it properly belongs in other words that that's Stormont I mean you know this is not this is for this is for the people of Northern Ireland and for their politicians what do you say to Sara canning Lyra Mackey's partner who said the greatest tribute that could be paid to her would be for the UK Parliament to actually enact same-sex marriage in Northern Ireland well I understand her feelings and I you know and I was I was 13 years the years ago for for equal marriage and and supported completely but I I think that the the the forum in which this issue should be debated and decided is the is the government of normal and that's that's another reason to get it going get it going for economic reasons but also to sort out these difficult political questions and I don't think that the UK government should be imposing something that should be decided here by the people in Northern Ireland do you think it's about time the Conservative Party organized properly in Northern Ireland well I think this was pretty proper to me I mean we got a what do you think it's big he disrespectful of en en to suggest that this turnout today is a great man now in the fact that in conservative campaign headquarters in London they give lots of money all around the country to different different constituencies different regions to promote the conservative message I think there is a feeling in Northern Ireland that the Conservative Party here is treated as a bit of a backwater well I think I may be the only candidate slept in this race has actually been to speak to the Conservative Party in Northern Ireland before I do I don't know whether you interviewed my previous my I did I didn't he raised it but I mean I I in northern and I've done what I can to help and and to encourage I do think it's wonderful that conservatives are organizing here in Northern Ireland but it but the fact is that we have an arrangement of confidence and supply with the DUP and it's perfectly right that I think Philip Hammond and myself and a number of other I did go to their to their conference and so I tell you why I think that was a reasonable thing to do because if we didn't have the DUP supporting us in Westminster much as I admire the work of conservatives in Northern Ireland we didn't have the DUP and I'm afraid the truth is we would have Jeremy Corbyn who has an agenda to break up the Union to say nothing of his support for the IRA and all the rest of it so I justify my my visit on those grounds and I was made it absolutely clear that I was speaking as a as a visitor and not a any sense of participant of their conference should we move on to the next question final question yes do you watch Game of Thrones I I you know I have watched bits of it I haven't got into it in the in the but of course I know that Game of Thrones is is is filmed here in in Orland and not only that but of course Game of Thrones is I think the next Star Wars movie the Obi I think this George Lucas he's gonna do a film about obi-wan Kenobi as far as I know it she's gonna be made here in Northern Ireland but many many wonderful things are made will come from northern character and Game of Thrones or even Star Wars that you can identify with the trolls like I don't know Game of Thrones well enough to be able to to identify any of any of the characters Star Wars I tell you what I identified very I did I identify very much with the guy with a lightsaber the Jedi Knight sets in I tell you why I tell you why because I'm delighted to say one of the many links between between are between Northern Ireland and and myself I'm proud to say that the the lightsaber is manufactured and was invented guess where in Uxbridge and south right slit by bradster which is the constituency I write I represent and I have I have I have a lightsaber in my in my office in in Westminster there's a most beautiful thing which was presented to me by no less a figure than Christopher Lee anyway that's that's a that's a digression but it shows it shows how our United Kingdom is linked together we we invented the lightsaber in Uxbridge it is wielded in Northern Ireland and the resulting film is sold around the world and grosses more than any other movie in history or as fall or something like that which shows by the way how the UK is not is dominant in the creative culture and media sectors as well as there are so many others right time for questions he would like to ask the first one gentleman at the back there then gentleman that Johnny Andrew Stanford Association in view of the northern and office not being ready for brexit how do you propose to ensure that they're ready and can I also ask how you propose to create a more positive brexit in Northern Ireland as we've been faced with really almost a Prosoft brexit here in terms of the fixed link how do you rank the fixed link in terms of your infrastructure projects thank you I think we should be very positive about brexit and we should be we should not be terrified of a of a No Deal Rex if we should not be terrified of coming out on WTO terms we will make sure we look after the agriculture in interest we look after we have deficiency payments farm get payments export refunds whatever is necessary to protect farmers will make sure that just-in-time supply chains are protected and I think a lot of the negativity about a WTO brexit has been wildly overdone you know people say that there won't be any clean drinking water and the planes won't fly and then there won't be milk solids and glucose and way to make Mars bars it's all do you really believe that it is total nonsense I prophesied very confidently that we will have a successful brexit the planes will fly there will be clean drinking water and there will be there will be way for the Mars bars because whereas the will does away as iong as I never tire of saying and as for as for the fixed link I presume by that you mean the proposal by Alan Dunlop of a Liverpool University for a fixed link between Northern Ireland and Scotland is that what is that what you're talking about well I look I'm an enthusiast for that idea I'm gonna put it out there I only asked for that idea I think it's a good idea but again that is the kind of project that should be pursued by a dynamic Northern Ireland government championed by local people with local consent an interest backed by local business and mobilized by the politicians of Northern Ireland that's what that's what should happen we want a an IKE you know I'm one in favor of it but it's got to be it's got to come it's got to be supported by people here in Northern Ireland National Finance sure yes yes but that you would go and believe me but with with infrastructure projects finances is not the issue or not the issue is political will the issue is getting people but getting the business community to see that this could be something that works for them the issue is getting popular demand and popular consent for a great infrastructure project and that is why you need Stormont mr. Johnson my name is Adam Flanagan I've recently completed my a-levels in South Belfast it's good to hear about you defending the Union but rather than taking a defensive approach can you tell me specifically how you would promote and prosper I promote and foster Northern Ireland's place in the Union especially when there's increasing apathy and the mainland towards our place in the Union well not not in not in not anywhere near me there isn't and believe me I mean very sincerely what I said when I go around the world I see our country the UK loved respected admired because they know that we stand for certain things but it's not Northern Iowa England or Scotland whales at stairs it's the whole UK it's that branch that Union flag red white and blue that is the great global brand and by the way the biggest soft power brand across across the world with the possible exception of the United States when dry and I exempt them because they're after all a spiritual cultural and intellectual child of the of the UK of the UK of the UK of the UK be careful what I say America America the United States of America is spiritually culturally intellectually descended I think you it would be there but being a fairer way to put it from from from our our country but people people believe in us they believe in it in the UK and in the incredible in our armed services in our diplomacy in our reputation for for science for innovation a lot of which goes on here and oh I want as I said I want to champion the the Union there to answer your questions really by being not only Prime Minister at first and all of the Treasury Minister for the civil service but also Minister for the Union I would like to have a there will be a special unit in number 10 to make sure that every policy is sense and stress tested for the benefits that it will bring to the Union and I make it I want to make it absolutely clear that under no circumstances under no circumstances whatever happens will there be I will I allow the EU or anyone else to create any kind of division down the Irish Sea or to attenuate our Union and that is why I so bitterly opposed the withdrawal agreement you may recall and that's why the best way forward for our country and that's why I resigned over checkers you may you may recall because it it does it's it puts it but it's a terrible moral blackmail it puts on the UK government you can't have that you can't have that approach the way to protect the Union is to come out of the EU whole and entire in the way that I am recommending solve the border issues where they belong logically in the context of the the FTA that we're going to do it's it's and and I think once they recognize in Brussels that they have a different leader in the in the UK and a totally different approach to the negotiations I think actually they're going to be rather relieved because a lot of for last three years they've faced a lot of indecision a lot of confusion about what the UK really wants and now's the time to get it right in the cabinet for the first two years of our indecision you helped run the senior officers of state and I do almost saying well nothing to do with makeup well I if you remember I was I spend a lot of the time trying to wrench the steering wheel back in the direction of common sense and we had a speech at Lancaster House in the beginning of 2017 by the p.m. which almost got us back on the right track and then it was a very very tough fight up to two checkers in in in the middle of of 2018 when it became obvious finally that we were going in completely the wrong direction and I resigned on principle and made my argument and I think we're gonna win and it will be and we will do an exit from the EU which keeps our union but allows the whole UK to take advantage of breaks in just what the gentleman said and the papers or the Telegraph reported this morning that you want to restructure government to abolish Secretary of State for Northern Ireland actually what the Telegraph said that I was being urged to do that and I have no but no they no one took the trouble to urge me in person before urged say telling The Telegraph that they were urging me to do it so some of whatever urgings were taking place they were not they were not they were not directed personally at me so I you know be a secretary of state for North certainly will I was I was like you know I I hesitate to dissent from anything that the Telegraph ever says but but I I wasn't aware of being urged near me such direction right hey Boris Philipp black I'm just wondering if you aren't out of the ie on the 34 October and what are your plans are you going to have a general election or are you gonna stand down or you know what is the back-up plan what is this defeatism you know this is what this is what this is what they keep hearing in Brussels and they keep thinking these guys aren't serious you know the law at the moment says that the UK must come out of the EU on October the 31st unless the Prime Minister of the UK unless the governor the UK asks for another extension why would we want an extension does it end of cancer who wants an extension right okay here's what a couple of people that the bell gang all right okay fair enough a couple of people want one they said I think the overwhelming majority of our party wants to get out on October the 31st and that is what we're going to do and we're going to get out in the way that I've described I think it's the most sensible approach it will enable us to to get on do a great free trade deal and take advantage of brexit at the moment you know I think the anymore can kicking anymore can kicking simply plays into the hands of our opponents and although it is true that Jeremy Corbyn is a is a very very feeble leader and there's a big difference between now and when I first came to speak to Northern Irish concerns I think we were then we were then facing Tony Blair who was coming up blistering tooth plausible crowding all over the centre ground but that's not the case with korben korben is far left and deeply implausible in his economic policies and in the recent counts elections in May he managed to go backwards he's so incompetent he lost seats that didn't happen with Blair that didn't happen with Blair but you can't guarantee that Parliament won't be successful in amending the law to stop you from leaving in October thirty-first can you well of course what I believe is that parliamentarians will want to take their responsibilities very seriously and will understand as I say that we are staring down the barrel and our country faces a choice now our politicians face a choice they can continue to hemorrhage trust they can continue to be seen as willing to undermine democracy we can lose more votes to the brexit party into the Liberal Democrats or we can take our responsibilities responsibilities seriously and in a mature way and get it over the line and I think that's what MP's are going to do now and look at the look at the vote that happened a couple of weeks ago about whether to rule out no deal actually they didn't I think people are increasingly waking up to the fact that this is existential for the Tory party and it's probably also existential for labour as well if they if they if they you know they will also lose huge amounts of support unless they get this done so I've got Dominic grieve for an hour on my radio show tonight what should I ask him well I think you should you should you should ask him whether he would what would he really prefer what would he really prefer would he prefer to come out of the EU in the way that the British people were promised on October the 31st would he prefer to be able to get on and do all sorts of fantastic conservative things wonderful one nation progressive modern conservative policies investing in infrastructure investing in education in health care and all that all the things that we care about as well as championing the private sector or would he rather unnecessarily frustrate brexit calls deepening anger and disillusionment amongst the voters and pave the way eventually for a Corbin government what does he want the chance to build a new partnership with our European friends based on free trade and all the things we're going to do together or a Corbin government that's the choice lady down there Lynn Anderson East Belfast following on from that I was going to ask a question about party unity and if you became Prime Minister what would you actually do about some of your Conservative MP colleagues who seem to have been putting personal preference above the Democratic result of the referendum and actually doing all they can it seems to me to undermine and sabotage trying to get brexit through I would love them up i-i-i-i I don't think you're applauding my old sir you were pulling the question I I would I would I would I would I would give them as much understanding and love as I possibly could and try to bring everybody together but I really think this is existential folks we either do this or we're doomed and we got to get this thing done and that applies to Dominic it applies to you know I was like campaigning this morning with yesterday morning with with with Bob Neil who do you some of you may know it takes a very different view from me but he understands a need to get this thing over the line so I don't I think we need him a mood of determination and and unity and I've just remind you that I was before you today as the candidate with more than half the parliamentary party already behind me and many more now signing up so I'm I'm very pleased by that outcome and I have dozens of remain as dozens of levers already flocking to our standards so I'm very confident and very excited so Queen's University conservative society room wise and I'm the chair I would ask for us and he talks a lot about the moderate progressive policies of the current Conservative government which which I wholly agree why does he think that fits with him going and talking to the DEP does not send the right signals when the DEP want northern arm to be treated differently in terms of social policy to the rest the well look there's a reason I'm I'm I'm a conservative and that's because I you know I'm not I'm not I believe in in our policies we should be very proud of our of our record in delivering on equalities and I believe that we've done some great things for Society in the whole of the of the UK and we should we should we should we should sticker that I've said what I've said about the DUP which is that actually I think that they have been indispensable as by by delivering that agreement on confidence in and supply in preventing our country being governed by Jeremy Corbyn in the Labor Party and and you know that's that that's the choice we face do you get frustrated that you are painted by your opponents I don't mean Jeremy Hunt but in the media in on the left of politics as some sort of right-wing populist whereas actually if you look at your record on particular social issues you were about as liberal as you can get well I know that people think I know I don't know where it all comes from it's complete hysteria and and but there you go you know people will say all sorts of extraordinary things and you just have to keep trying to to correct them I I was you know there's there's what's about was a I tell you what it's all I remember before I became mayor in in 2008 there are a whole bunch of of lefties who promised faithfully to leave the the city with all the country if I was elected mayor in the Guardian ran a whole supplement about how how awful I was and the most bigoted xenophobic person that ever stood for high office anywhere in the UK and at the end of eight years I most of them were we're working for me actually we're also person certainly supporting me and I I think I had 60 percent support more at the end than than when I came in but I remain a you know a proud free-market low tax conservative I just happen to think that our country does better when were when we send out a signal to the world that were inclusive and tolerant and generous Inara in our approach to other people and that is and that is one of the reasons why the UK economy is so so massively successful thanks very much and having moved here from Scotland delighted it's not going to start yes we did a great trip up to the Highland remember quite a few years ago and with hearing your comments about the bridge which was very positive because I'm I loved it massively put a lot of infrastructure in around Stranraer all that yeah and what needs to be done which is political will and local will how would you view the same political will and local will if there was promotion of a financial tax free zone in Belfast well that's the sort of thing we can do but only once we leave the EU mark thank you very much for your question you know we could we could do free ports we could we could it would be a massive boost to this economy but only once we we come out and we should we won't have about six of them by the way we should definitely be doing free ports and and and tax free zones they you know they have delivered around the world well I think they're about 130 countries that have them we don't because of our membership of the EU and there are plainly areas that would benefit from them why six and where would they be I'm not going to tell you whether I try to be all over the place I tried particularly in Northern Ireland good afternoon Nestle McGarrity norstein and I wanted to ask you Boris about the national crisis that is facing us all which is social care and I'm a provider of Social Care in Northern Ireland and I have seen over the last number of years the cuts and the difficulties there are in both staffing recruiting and sustaining social care and we saw I Teresa may fell on the sword of that and the dementia tax entire labour was so easily able to beat her with it at the last election what would you propose to sustain and establish a social care in the United Kingdom you you are so right I mean it's fascinating election campaigns like this is so valuable because you really start to understand what's top of people's right this is number one and we've got a sorted out because you know it affects every family in there and makes affects my family affects everyone everybody's family people are thinking how on earth am I gonna pay for you know the cost of care over over what could be a huge period of time running into tens hundreds of thousands of pounds where's that money coming from and all I can say is we we need to approach and of course the we put another 3.9 billion I think into into Social Care as as a government but we gotta recognize in the long term we need to we need to sort it out and there are no quick fixes or or easy answers we need to bring everybody together to try to take the politics out of it because as you righties pointed out it became very difficult at the last election the the two principles should be that nobody should face eviction from their home to pay for the cost of their for their social care everybody should be entitled to stay in their home and a number two everybody should be entitled to dignity and security in their old age but we need to bring the parties together to sort this out across our country ladies and gentlemen Boris Johnson well ladies and gentlemen I hope that's aided you in your decision-making process if you haven't had enough politics today do listen to me 7:00 p.m. LBC with Dominic grieve tonight thank you [Applause] you