Hindutva Mascot Adityanath Now UP Chief Minister: Politics Of Development?



well the big story today of course firebrand hood Lucifer leader yogi Adityanath who took oath as chief minister of Uttar Pradesh today along with 46 ministers other tennis was sworn in with the entire top BJP leadership including the prime minister and amateur president in his first press conference later he stayed away from any controversies in any temple talk and promised to government for all saying that he would work without any bias or discrimination the Prime Minister tweeted that other tennis and his team would make you pee open pradesh saying that our sole mission and motives development to chief ministers close to the RSS or its ideology in as many days BJP message is blunt yogi Adityanath took oath as yupi chief ministers at a ceremony attended by the prime minister his ministers and BJP chief ministers and 2x Samajwadi Party chief ministers merely his visa DT so subsea tree covering manly and Wadi G cabarrus compliment Ramona or made it shorter my yogi deke I was selfish comic commentary on the even was loaded with Hindu symbols the Chief Minister said all promises will be delivered guided by philosophy of RSS ideologues India upadhyaya samasta sukhino Contini Samantha's sister ecology Lobo nice Kira gasps kiba's fajita mantra mentality Sebastien tomorrow may Oscar risky behavior God yogi are the cannot stir the politicians took charge the nameplate at the Chief Minister's house said audit enough yogi the Chief Minister his deputies and the councils are a balancing act as the BJP has given ministerial berth to sections and regions with voted for it or allies who help get both the selection of Chief Minister and ministers indicates the BJP is preparing for 2019 election that's why the new government was greeted with politics BJP news van ma chemistry billion on par dismay a play addresses key agenda for turrican a key half of this is a capillary so Matsuzaka silly yogi Adityanath KO when I do cool soft metallic tire ki-moon collection we collection in good weather we call luxury keep our earthquake in do – when I kick in do rush – banana well the BJP says that development the fight against corruption are going to remain top priorities you have been can idle Syria minister who also said that religious politics will not be the path taken by the BJP which is ironic since of the Genesis synonymous with in local politics and has been an extremely controversial and polarizing figure so modest coming on Bharatiya Janata Samantha lie or hard extra money from money he'll live in yoga cannot escape from me Nadia will McConaughey or Marathi under a hockey puck in Santa Kendall IRI photo Pakistan his niggas are occurring legally italian Boris food in the run-up to European actions of warning to go to Pakistan the kind of insidious rhetoric behind Yogi's five successive wins from the communally sensitives order for Lok Sabha seat and now powered him to the gut be in Lucknow it's dramatic and surprising rise given his long-running tensions with his parent party and his maverick hardline approach his inheriting the seat of the head of Gorakhpur gorakhnath temple whose circle of influence extends across eastern Uttar Pradesh allowed him to operate as a parallel political force it brought him and his band of aggressive followers the Hindu yoga vahini repeatedly in conflict with the law his role in 2007 riots in Gorakhpur led to slew of charges including attempted murder writing promoting enmity between groups on grounds of religion the cases of a sudden honking levels up there but the citizens against Raja to take a clean politics they say charges are serious they have medical object in cosmetics software final report gin Laguna car wat ong logan SS melodia dick to fry a asparagus are elastic monday home lopez ever operating in those cases have done little to deter his propensity to make communally charge remarks here are the examples shahrukh khan talks like half a side can go to Pakistan Mother Teresa was a part of conspiracy to convert Hindus to Christianity will install idols of Gauri Ganesh in every Masjid they've given a chance up and coconut Harper's and taco Becca's first in julianka no wolf was there that's hilarious such a pauper Daniel sucked a keep the power Likud in this league i up who Likud in Beasley guy up unup window for war tomorrow may be slick I up Lake in Lake a material suppose an aggressor would hang up public excuse about the radius as the BJP attempted a less divisive campaign the yogi was given less prominence the party's landslide when seen as a mandate for Prime Minister Modi and for Vikas was seen as further dimming the Safran hardliners chance for the top job yogi chicken Anka Prasanna so we create okay yes MOSFETs la caja on some we have a thousand our customers encouraged why in the end they opted for him remains unclear but in choosing the yogi the BJP has signaled its political intent 2019 the chin of Austin gent – Pratap Singh's for NDTV we love to talk about tonight this has been a big big day for Indian politics and back with us on the panel this evening we have Shekar Gupta and our teachers are two veteran journalists and commentators we have booster rockets in of the RSS foreign care of the Congress party and Union Minister babul Supriyo joins us tonight from the BJP shaker cook the let's first look at the press conference that yogi Adityanath had did you think that he struck all the right notes nothing controversial was said I'm going to work for everybody I won't discriminate against anyone did he make all the right noises well for now yes and I think there is no surprise because to think that he will be sworn in today and start and start repeating some quotable quotes from the past is exciting optimistic so you're very cautiously optimistic about agency optimistic I'm just giving you a sexual statement on what is said today I think it's part is an indication it's tough to be optimistic but people change and people sometimes say things to suit the circumstances so we don't know and frankly we also don't know how well he'll be controlled from Delhi and what and what kind of script he's been given I think he's pretty much keeping the script that he's been given from the high command now I think we should start using that expression for VP well good job Bob were talking about that in just a moment but I think what was your reading of his first comments yes I think he was trying to be the chief minister for 30 days he made all the right noises and I think that you know for the moment that's what we will see from him because there is no reason for them to you know sort of plunge into controversy you know on his very first day what we really need to see more than the rhetoric and because I think he will tone down the rhetoric if you notice even during the campaign he started off saying a lot of things for which he was ticked off and after that he tone down the rhetoric although he campaigned quite extensively so but I think what we really need to see is what kind of a government here on and whether you know when you say sabka saath sabka Vikas you know whether it actually percolates down to the ground level where there is no differentiation no discrimination everybody is getting electricity both Muslims and you know he lose both Josh Angus and published and you know both on Holi and on Ramzan so I think this was really what we need to monitor eyes rather than looking into you know rhetoric we need to monitor what he tells of the ground Bapu Supriyo both shaker gupta and RT very cautiously reading you know yogi Adityanath comments i think it's too early for us to say anything about what kind of a chief minister he will be but given his track record I mean he somebody who's been a member of parliament five times from Gorakhpur and he has been extremely polarizing a very divisive figure who has you know made a series of statements he's also facing a number of criminal cases even an attempted murder charge there are writing cases there are trials that are also going on given that what exactly was the message that the BJP was trying to send by by your high command choosing him as the chief minister you had plenty of other good faces I would say you know let's go back a little behind and during the period of black-and-white TV when we just saw people in black and white and did not see their colors I don't know why people have this problem with this color orange is a sacred color for us would anyone in the panel would anyone I mean anyone who are asking questions is perfectly fair to ask the questions yoga he would have to answer them with the developmental world that he's he has promised UUP and the the responsibilities that has been kept on him by that has been entrusted on him by the BJP High Command quote-unquote water shakers we just said now would anyone have objected if he had a woman cm a woman team wearing a burqa would yes knocking – what is this bubbly contain normal I didn't it is nothing to you between fashion is a lovely color I believe my god you finish no no to make it has nothing to do with his role it is a lot of little idiot so I said a song from yesterday once again one thing is one thing just because you have cases filed against you doesn't mean that you are accused you are a convict convict I have optimality having no no no no he why did you so that show that clip very says that people who are chanting Pakistan were showing Pakistani flag and who are saying anti Indians programs are going to be sent to Pakistan what is wrong in that I think that is perfectly fine where is where is it where I go wrong with you what is the thing is that it while you can why is Rahim Khan what I do no what no no we all know that yogi ji did not make the correct noises in the past he has made a couple of very inflammatory statements it is there is we all know him like every person has a personality he has much money but you know it yes you know that's the way he has I am NOT saying that his personality that's the way he carries himself doesn't he is said we cannot support everything that he has said but now that he has been given a responsibility and the fact that he is a five-time winner who has bought the trust of the people what makes us think that our hindu cannot serve a Muslim or a Muslim cannot serve a Hindu I think in a secular country it would be very interesting to for a yogi ji to achieve the same success that is confidence of the Muslim the same thing that mu D G a babul Supriyo and I don't know that we would probably not be having such a big discussion about it and you know the date because it you do here is it not difficult you are making an admission tonight that he's made comments in the past which you feel were in a program because your because you know because it is all there no no I did not use the word he no prophet I said he has made comments which we will not be might not agree to the party might not agree to but the point is that there is no reason to believe that his his he himself calling him to a yogi that word yogi is going to go you know Paris me Modi you came a yogi kind of think that yogi what is being highlighted right no no is that the problem if you guys the questions have already been asked that that is that is not when asked what I'm trying to say we don't want to see appeasement politics the way Monster Energy is doing it in this Bengal or the way my over the years announced in our election rallies you want to see a Hindu gaining the trust of the Muslims because the perception has been created that probably Muslims do not vote for BJP let's see there is there is a bigger so you have a garden that does our wonder when Prime Minister was in my village you know your way of winning Muslims over is to get the guy who made the most anti-muslim statements the most strident anti-muslim statements throughout his career or ever gotten I don't think that is anti-muslim no infidel in Hollywood human anti-india slogans should go back to pocket I'm so very correct Giada too many said babul Supriyo will say the same thing so I would say I would say needy just one last sentence there are so many speakers I want to you know keep on talking my last sentence is that we will let's see that you know we we find a Hindu doing development politics as our prime minister estates of cassava Vikas let's put history behind beat his own or whatever you might associate with BJP put it aside for a little while give him a little bit of time he has been a five-time MP has won the trust of people we would love to see him a Hindu wearing saffron today you know winning with rocky and I congratulate you you being an idiot in Texas the state of his per commentator the BTOP saying give him time and that the message from their High Command is clear that development is going to be the mandate which is what the Prime Minister tweeted in a series of tweets this evening as well maybe the message by appointing yogi Adityanath G is simple from the RSS or whoever is decided that you get rewarded the more radical you found the better the rewarded simple method now you can't avoid this you will have to see the message as it is what is more dangerous is the easy interchangeability between majority and majoritarianism between the mask and the faith this these are questions these are concerns that are very very 10 min that sir we are sitting here and debating nobody has a problem with the color of clothes he rhythm and sorry we're a secular state we are colorblind we are not bothered about whether you a sovereign or it's a beautiful color I agree with you why should we have a problem his name having yogi attached to it no visa they want us to debate these issues these are not issues that we are interested in debating what we are interested in debating is what is the message Nagpur and Delhi have sent to this to their own rank and file you abused book-length you sound polarizing you will get rewarded

Reality Check: P. Chidambaram on Four years of Modi govt. | Karan Thapar



hello and welcome to a special interview for the wire dot in on Saturday the BJP government completes four years in power so today we asked what does the opposition make of those four years does the opposition accept that the government has some achievements to its credit to what sort of failures does the opposition point towards and how does the opposition see the state of the country those are the key issues I should raise today with former Home Minister and former Finance Minister P Chidambaram is suited number before I come to a subject rise assessment of the performance of the Modi government let me begin by asking you for your overall assessment of its functioning over the last four years I asked myself a couple of questions has a country and the country's economy become more efficient more productive stronger answer is no because I think there are serious issues affecting the economy and I will write about it for example the Sunday has a country more friends in the neighbourhood answers no Maldives Sri Lanka Nepal to a large extent China and not to speak of Pakistan and not at all friendly within the country are people happier more cohesive working with each other respecting each other the answer is a loud no never before maybe during the partition never before the country being more polarized more divided people suspect each other and people hate each other so I think the four years have not only not taken the country forward may have set us back quite a bit in the damage done to the social fabric I'll come to each of those issues that you raise one by one in a moment's time the economy foreign relations the social fabric the mood of the country but do you believe there are any successes that this government has achieved any government any government in office for four or five years will build more roads who will complete more infrastructure projects which were started earlier will build more toilets will vaccinate more children will ensure that more colleges are open but these aren't successes to boast off these are not successes as any government will do it and governments are vaulted out after they've done it did the watch by government do nothing but it was voted out what about the Prime Minister's performance as p.m. how do you rate mr. Modi's performance over the last four years C Prime Minister is Prime Minister 24 hours a day whatever he does wherever he is the Prime Minister has not been prime ministerial I don't want my Prime Minister going on a stage and waving his arms and flailing his arms and making gestures and mocking at people I don't want my Prime Minister to speak like that I hold as great examples presidents prime ministers who have been presidents prime ministers all 24 hours a day look at President Obama a very recent example always presidential even Putin is always presidential mr. Modi is not always prime ministerial look at his election speeches look at the language he uses you can't turn around and say the opposition is using the same language if the opposition is using similar language that's wrong but nobody in the opposition is speaking from the position of a prime minister in other words there are standards you expect for Prime Minister and mr. Modi simply doesn't live up to them can you think of one example one example where Joe Halal Nehru fell below the standard of being Prime Minister in all those 17 years how do you rate him amongst all the prime ministers India oh well we've had short-lived Prime Minister's so I don't think they're comparable we've had Chandra Shekar Gujarat Sharon Singh I don't think you should really compare them but alongside of rocks I can confirm with Prime Minister's of completed a full term and Prime Minister's were completed a full term our only job al al Nehru Indira Gandhi Rajiv Gandhi bajpai that's all but how does he compare with them really certainly not in the class of Jawaharlal Nehru were Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi was a completely different breed watch PI even within his own party I think much PI was a greater human being a greater humanist so mr. Modi is bottom of the five well they don't say bottom of the five I think in political craft he perhaps was as clever as mrs. Indira Gandhi but mrs. Indira Gandhi had much wider interests but in terms of anybody and stature environment literature arts I don't think the present Prime Minister's shown any interest in those areas and in terms of dignity and structure well I have a bias and I'm biased in favor of Indira Gandhi let's come at this point to subject wise assessment of the Modi government's performance and let me start with the economy this year GDP is estimated to grow at six point five percent I believe in the last quarter touch seven point two inflation is four point five the fiscal deficit is three point five the current account deficit is too but FDI is at record levels somewhere around four hundred and twenty billion and the Modi government is extremely proud of their macroeconomic handling do you think that pride is justified or would you differ not justified read my column this Sunday it will be published it will be on – there are 12 areas where I've said the economy's and very dire straits well I'll wait for you to read it but let's take your FDI FD has to be broken into two parts one is what I called additional incremental investment the other is simply replacement capital you're a foreigner I'm an Indian I own a pharmaceutical company you buy me out you what you bring in his FDI but for India it's only one capital one capitalist replaced by another capitalist one capital replacement other capital it is not additional capital it's not refresh investment it's not flesh investment in a sense that's what's happened to fit that yes much of all most of these takeovers are not additional capital it just thought one owner is replaced by so to claim that this leads to record levels of FDI is misleading to say the least it is it is misleading to some extent except that it shows up our foreign exchange we get more foreign exchange but it is not additional capital that helps to build the country it's one person being taken over by now so to boast about this is to actually misunderstand the nature of what's happening I've always said you must split FDI into fresh investment and replacement capital let me touch on two or three issues to do with the economy the first is farmers distress we've seen massive protests in March in Maharashtra starting the first of June a hundred and ten farmers organizations are promising to go on a 10-day Pyrus month the Modi government responds says that many of the concerns the farmers have been taken care of by their promise to give a minimum circa versus occurs of the chroman prices at one hundred and fifty percent the production cost as well as by the farm loan waivers various BJP governments have extended do you believe that the government's response is adequate to the distressed farmers face oh is it way too little who was given and who has got cost plus fifty percent that's a promise it's a Joomla it's not been implemented the bulk of the farmers do not get even the current MSP C it's one thing to announce an MSP it's one thing for every farmer to get it farmers don't get it because there are not enough Mundy's you saw a report today if you go to Ma Mundi there are not enough weighing scales you're asked to wait for three four days a farmer can't wait so he sells it is not a distress sale it is a semi distress sale he sells it to a broker who then sells it for the MSP so the government's responds to farmers distress is inadequate in fact and misleading as well dr.xu Gulati in our article on eyes I suppose is India's foremost agricultural economists as said barely twenty five percent of the farmers get MSP they don't get MSP number one and then this cost plus fifty percent has not been implemented at all and certainly not as the subramanyam committee intended it to be certainly I mean it can't be implemented in the manner they have announced it unless they are prepared to subsidize something because it a push up inflation straight away as far as farm loan waiver is concerned we have seen these horror cases of here you get a check for ten rupees and a check for five rupees the only way a farm loan waiver can be implemented is by asking the bank to write it off on its books and that hasn't been done that has not been done which is what I did in 2008 so the BJP government's claims that they've adequately addressed farmers distress is inaccurate it's misleading in a sense it's pulling the wool over people's eyes another March is coming up I'm told very shortly that it starts the 1st of June yeah at first a borrowed band organized by 110 in Delhi cultural organization alienation right they're gonna get out daily and you see the number that will come and they're going to cut off the supply of vegetables to all the metros in the country let's come to a second issue to do with the economy the BJP government during the campaign of 2013-14 promised ten million jobs a year now citing EPF four figures the vice-chairman of nithya yoga has recently said that last year alone six million jobs were created sue Jean Halle member the Prime Minister's Economic Advisory Council is actually written that in fact 15 million jobs were created but you know and I know that the Centre for monitoring the Indian economy has genuinely refuted this so in your opinion as a former finance minister is job creation one of the successes of this government or is it its Achilles heel there are not 15 million people entering the labor market seeking jobs every year and yet someone says that 15 million jobs have been created so that's baloney it's complete baloney I think that paper of the Ghosh's has been blown to pieces even the Ghosh's are not willing to come on a public platform to defend it see the only numbers we have is a labor surveys quarterly report that's official every quarter a few thousand jobs are created the highest I've seen in a quarter is 1 lakh 36,000 jobs in other quarters I've seen much smaller numbers but that's the only survey we have the government is choosing to rely instead on EPF of because EPF Oh numbers doesn't mean that a job has been created just formally means a job has been formalized so once again if you rely on EPF of figures you could end up with a outcome that is distorted and wrong and if you present it as reality once again you're fooling yourself leave aside every ways to ask the people I was in Tuticorin which is from the news for wrong reasons today what we call – – coolie the huge public meeting I mean not necessarily party workers alone the public Pradesh from the market a regular public Randi and ask the question does anyone here nor can tell me whether his family member some Navy whatever a neighbor a person on the same street a family in the same neighbourhood has in the last six months got a formal job Huli please stand up and tell me afforable now what happened nobody knows not a single person I have asked this in small groups of asses and I ask this in Mumbai in the Tata auditorium and session and again no one stood up no one's to them and now they're not shy if their son or daughter was gone but this is a proof that jobs are not being created there are not enough formal jobs being created there are replacement jobs somebody retires somebody's abut that's a different thing let's bring up another issue again a promise made by the Prime Minister when he was candidate in 2013-14 that he would Institute wide-ranging sweeping radical reforms in fact at one point of time he said the very face of the Indian economy would change and when you speak to the government they cite the whole list of things from GST and D monetization to the real estate Regulation Act to the RBI's monetary policy committee Jonathan yogena Aurelio Jinnah free LPG for the people below the poverty line health insurance as well as the host of other things but would you accept that that's three of the things they've done do constitute a radical wide-ranging reform I'm talking of GST I'm talking of the investment and bankruptcy code and then the decision announced in the budget this year that the fixed term employment scheme which many people believe is a back way entry for hire and fire will be extended or right across the economy are these three genuinely radical and far-reaching GST is indeed radical but I don't think the BJP can claim credit for that if anything the BJP can claim credit for is all the holes in the GST law which they are filling now recall my speech in Parliament and I cautioned them and a whole list of things don't do this don't do and they did the more event and did all that and now they're correcting it what about the other two well the other two is the investment in bankruptcy in Lisbon and bankruptcy court this morning those an ordinance amending it well I accept that trial and error but why trial and error why can't you consults more people and put in place think through what you're doing you look before you leap they miss the fixed term employment the fixed term employment is retrograde it's not hire and fire through the back door which many people more or less it's retrograde can you suggest fixed term employment to auto workers in the United States steel workers in Germany or England but isn't this something industrialists have been asking for an India precisely industrial asking for hire and fire and as the government should stand up and say honestly yes we are trying to appease the industrialists by allowing hire and fire seem fixed term employment is valid for certain kinds of jobs which are highly specialized highly skilled jobs suppose you're employing somebody who brings in a behavioral scientist in your company or human resource development specialist you only need him for a fixed um hence it makes sense and he may not want to stay with you for thirty years of his life and applying it across the board and in his misplaced a still work is what happens to the factories act industrial laws applying it across to people who need that job security and who probably will work for thirty years like Tata Steel worker I've seen Tata Steel worker spend his whole life there I've seen people working in textile large textile companies for the whole life there you can you introduce fixed term employment so this is not a way of creating more employment this is a way of creating insecurity of employment is he I concede the principle of fixed term employment but only for certain categories of jobs for the across the board you must have regular employment with security of job my last issue to do with the economy before I turn to Kashmir and that is to ask about D monetization it is clearly the most controversial economic decision this government has taken in the last five years but most people believe that litmus test to judge whether it's successful or not will be how much money is revealed to be black and how much of that then gets taxed and becomes a bonanza now the government has said that some 18 lakh sometimes even spoken of figures in advance of 20 lakh bank accounts are under scrutiny do you believe they will reveal vast sums of black money which would be taxed under scrutiny means nothing one thing is clear all the money that was demonetised us come back to the Reserve Bank the Reserve Bank does not even say anymore that it's still counting it's embarrassed sure it can't say that of all the money is coming but will the money that's come back now be shown to be larger take it one by one all of that counterfeit currency is a miniscule percentage so that objective field less cash it's failed there was cash is back and the government is in fact claiming cash is back now we have we monetize economy the only question now antenna funding has also failed because that'll continue terror continues and you find new crisp notes on terrorist bodies the only thing that remains to be decided is and the jury's out on that is how much of this have you assessed to tax as if it was black money would undisclosed money let's wait to see the first results do you fear that could be we could be waiting for years even decades because this could get tied up in horrible litigation absolutely there will be an assessment there will be an appeal there will be a further appeal to the tribunal High Court so from this particular critical issue nothing can be said today at all not at all all other objectives failed on this question of catching black money undisclosed money let's see very quickly how much damage do you think de monetization did to the economy and secondly connected with that is that phase of damage over or is it continuing well the damage is over but the pain is enduring I'll tell you why small and medium enterprises have been severely damaged of these many small units of close down I'll give you an example which means jobs have been lost in torpor which is the garment center there is an area called old bus stand it's an old bus stand because there is a new bus stand now but the old bus stand had 5,000 units which had was your doing job work for the garment units two or three people employed four or five people employed swing buttons tassels etc etc of those 5,000 units today 500 survive it's there you can go to the Putin so a lot of jobs are lost and these are jobs for people who will not find easy to Christmas because they don't have great skills they are very narrows so the most vulnerable are the ones who suffered the most and that is why new jobs are not being created because 90% of jobs are created in the small and medium sector so this was the worst possible thing any government could have done in your assessment and the pain which the poor underwent the daily work the vegetable vendor the flower and the carpenter the tailor were to work every day the pain they underwent for 3 to 4 months who's going to compensate for them they may have borrowed they may have sold property who's going to come and now they've got their backs against the wall let's come at this point to another issue of concern at the moment the situation in Kashmir since 2014 terrorist incidents have increased by a hundred and sixty percent the number of local krishma reasoning terrorist organizations has doubled and by some accounts it said one Kashmiri joins a terrorist organization every third day and the number of active militants has trebled against this background how do you assess the government's Kashmir policy completely wrong let me add a caveat here the position that I have taken may not necessarily be my party's position I have taken a position which is I think you can call it extreme but I think that's absolutely necessary having said that my party and I are on the same page that the Modi government's policy the muscular military militaristic policy is completely failed it's bound to fail this morning's report says when the Home Minister called top police officials from all over the country barring one or two unanimously they said open talks with everyone including the separatists and Pakistan and Pakistan now this is what do let says this is what the Kashmir Police says this is what army generals this is what the government refuses to do they won't because a government is only mr. Modi so the government's kashmir policy is totally wrong in your eyes sir Raj that Singh may have different views but he dare not express it the only man that matters is mr. Modi and his policies muscular military policy will crush them in this context how do you assess the Ramzan ceasefire announced on the 16th do you think it's a sensible move to reach out to alienated Kashmiri or is it just too little too late as well as inadequate in itself it's too little too late but I still welcome it because I think it gives some credence to a completely discredited Mehbooba Mufti government she may have gained say a pointer to an credibility that she made a demand and the central government responded now she has to build on that whether she will build on that or whether we shall simply suck him to coalition pressures and go back to business as usual I don't know something else the government didn't they did it last year was to appoint a special representative very nice word Sharma nobody has heard of him or seen him in the last six months what he's refused to speak to her if he's refused to speak to dissident or militant organizations but it is reported in the papers that it was on his advice the charges against own filters was dropped and it's also said that it was on his advice to the government agreed to the Ramzan ceasefire so do you think he's delivered or do you stand by your comment he's invisible absolutely last six months I said it on the first day but I'm willing to suspend judgment because I'm told he's a decent man but in the last six months nobody has heard of seeing him and I don't think the people in the valley care what he does or what he says I think is completely irrelevant now something that's been increasingly noticed has been reported in the papers extensively over the last nine months is that today young Kashmiri not just young boys but often young girls and often in their teens have taken to throwing stones at security forces to prevent them arresting militants and clearly these young boys and girls in their teens show no fear of their life whatsoever what does that tell you about the mood of Kashmiri youth today what it tells me is what a mother told a journalist reporter it was I mean when I was Home Minister and friend Omar was Chief Minister we didn't hear such a statement the mother said when the child was on the street stone pelting and was in grave danger of being killed or injured she said I'm sorry I can't stop my son but he thinks he's fighting for his future you know when mothers say that they will not restrain their children that tells you what the mood of the children is have we lost the young in Kashmiri emotionally I think so is the situation beyond redemption almost I've said so almost beyond redemption do you believe that the BJP PDP government cannot be part of the solution because it's part of the problem and therefore the solution can only begin with the imposition of President's rule under governor order well President's rule may not be a solution but the problem at least will be removed the pdp-bjp is the problem the PDP is seen as a betrayer and the BJP is seen as a usurper for the betray and the usurper come together and form a government it has zero credibility so the starting point to improve things is get rid of the present government let's come to a third issue of concern India's relationships with its neighbours and let's start with Pakistan where I believe the relationship is arguably at its lowest ever since Kashmir do you believe the government's policy the talks can't happen as long as there's the possibility of terror has utility and is still the right one or do you think now the time has come to change the way you handle this situation see I must preface it by saying Pakistan is equally to blame I don't think anyone should go away with impression so the Government of India is to blame the pact sonnies are blameless there as much to blame as the government of India maybe more but we have a greater stake in peace we have a democratic government here and the government was delivered in five years the Pakistan whatever government is there in Pakistan is beholden to the army and they remain in office at the will of the army me that doesn't mean so if I was in government I would say listen I have a great stick in peace so that I can deliver in five years if I must do I'm as good extra mile to ensure that things move on so I think the government of India was completely drawn in adopting this blow hot blow cold policy I wrote once they are capable of such somersaults which are worthy of an Olympic gymnast one day you go to the nuptials of Nawaz Sharif granddaughter was it and the next day you say there'll be no talks until the last gun ceases I think both are foolish moves so the policy is confused and contradictory absolutely so there's a definite need here for relooking rethinking and changing we should announce that we are willing to talk to everybody and then how the talk should be sequenced is a matter for the government to decide but we must talk even when there is terror you must talk I mean so the policy no talk while there's a possibility of terror is a wrong it's absolutely wrong grows terrible never sees has terror seized in Afghanistan is terror seized in Syria's terror seized in the Middle East terror will never cease as chera seized in Europe was terrace literacies in Ireland in fact terror is one reason why you have to talk I not avoid them agree that it sees in Ireland at the last gun stop firing before they talked it's only when you talk and reach a settlement that the guns will be silent even then the guns will take some time to become silent a second troubled relationship at the moment is the relationship with China do you believe that the wound summit was an imaginative way of restoring balance or do you share the view of critics who say this is the latest of India's unwarranted concessions to Beijing and assign not of strength but India's weakness you see after Wuhan is it wrong there was no joint statement the two sides gave separate statements and they were very very different the points that were emphasized by India were not even referred to by China so I don't know what the chemistry is but one thing is clear is one president Prime Minister the one chief executive of one country who refuses to be embraced or hugged by mr. Modi and that I think he makes it quite clear maybe they say it in advance so what is the takeaway from Wuhan I don't know because shortly after Wuhan we get a report that China has started mining extensively on its side of the our own natural border and that it is a precursor to claim rest of our land to be fair you also got to report to China's putting pressure on Pakistan to send half Issei to a West station we heard that also we heard that also I think China is very clever and China see this the political set where's the structure in China enables them to shift gears very quickly and nobody can question it so you don't think Wuhan is the right way of responding to this troubled relationship no no huh I'm not saying dismiss Wuhan in formal contracts are good meetings on the sidelines are good but eventually you must list the half a dozen things that have to be addressed and sit down with the president of China for substantive talks and say this is how progress will be measured over a period of time informal summits can take the place of the hard work of substantive talks and that must be left to diplomats that must be left to Train foreign service officers the honest truth is it's not just relationships with Pakistan and China that have traveled at the moment as you mentioned at the very beginning we have a troubled relationship with Sri Lanka with Nepal and the Maldives and many people believe that the Dhokla mission rankles in Bhutan even though Bhutan doesn't talk about it and yet there was enormous hope when mr. Modi came to find 2014 the heads of all the neighboring countries were invited that was the moment of euphoria what's gone wrong in your opinion since then well what's gone wrong is we want to consider ourselves equal to China now that can be an aspiration but is this hubris on India's part everyone is this hubris in the Holts pride you see China's economy is five times India's economy no obviously mr. Modi's not to blame for that we took different paths therefore there is much to be done before China will even consider others in equal China thinks we're an upstart we're not an upstart but we're certainly not equal at the moment therefore you will have to deal with China which recognizes there is a there's an inequality in the relationship in terms of power influence a wealth economic muscle etc there is a certain inequality there but as far as the neighbors are concerned I think this Big Brother attitude is what has brought us to this position I think we had great relationships with Sri Lanka with Nepal with Bhutan and Maldives every one of them is soured now Bhutan silence does not mean they're accepting all that we have done on non term and it's all because of Indian silence may actually be Bhutan sulking and it's all because of India's bigbrother attitude I think so arrogance actually well arrogance a strong word it's a big brother attitude and I have a feeling and I gather this from conversations here and there that we are not allowing our foreign service trained diplomats trained Foreign Service officers to do the bulk of the work this is the second being all done in the PMO this is the second time you've made this point you fear this said one of the problems with the conduct of foreign policy is that it's centralized around the office of the Prime Minister and that trained expert Foreign Service officers are being excluded to that External Affairs Minister is completely excluded we know that completely excluded but Jaishankar as foreign secretary was said to be very close to the Prime Minister he was he was but I think he worked more as a p.m. on per person rather than a mean so he was co-opted I think so he's very very intelligent of course we've talked about relationships that are sorry and go wrong and those are mainly the relationships of our neighbors but there is one where most people believe in fact the relationship has flourished with mr. Modi the relationship with the United States the American president frequently speaks in glowing terms about India and that certainly brings a warm happy smile to many Indian faces how much credit do you give mr. Modi for handling the relationship with Washington you see I don't believe in embrace diplomacy just because the US president embraces you a hug zoo makes a statement it means nothing and certainly it means nothing when mr. Trump says that I want to know I want to know what is happening to our h-1b visas I want to know what is happening to the green card holders or waiting to get the air citizenship I want to know how many Indian students are being admitted to you as universities and allowed to work after graduation and then there's pressure on any trade that India does I was in China and I started with Russia in Iran I want to know what are the trade disputes between India and us and how are they being resolved for example today we've imposed higher duties on a number of things including almonds wait until tomorrow the US will respond so I think those are the things that matter and those are not being talked about or were still they may even be ignored and there are disputes in the WTO between India and us so you're saying the image of the press has of a very close flattering relationship could be contradicted by the actual reality in terms of the issues you've just mentioned the press here is only here to boost mr. Modi's image I don't think India's media by and large is truly independent of the modular you're saying the media behaves like a propaganda organ of the cosmetics well it's independent otherwise I'm not saying it's it's a it's it's it's but it is it isn't fear of the Modi government it's in fear yes in other words it's servile and caught your liking it's actually the more examples of editors being fired go instance of government go ahead well editor of a leading English paper was fired you means the Hindustan Times well I won't take names 24 hours three editors of a leading business magazine by fire on the same day there are at least two famous journalists who can't get contracts with any television channel editorials have been pulled out after the event online but they didn't appear in the next morning's edition interviews have been pulled out after promos ran from 2 o'clock and afternoon to 6 o'clock in the afternoon therefore what does it mean so you're saying in a nutshell that at a moment when the Indian media was needed to be objective balanced and properly assess the government it's actually betrayed itself well those are strong words I hope the media will discover its true character but it's a limo but it's let in the air down yeah by and large the media isn't fear of the Modi government the media means the media owners are in fear of the Modi government let's take a break at that point when I come back I want to talk to you about the internal situation of the country the impact the Modi government has had over the last four years on critical constitutional institutions the mood of the country the treatment of Dalits and in particular Muslims and finally I want to raise with you a question that is often being asked sometimes in the press sometimes outside does mr. Modi lack moral leadership or is he just reluctant to show it we'll be back in a moment time for part two of this critical interview with mr. Dharam see you in a moment's time welcome back to part two of this exclusive interview with former Home Minister and former Finance Minister P Chidambaram in part one I spoke to him about the economy but Kashmir as well as about India's relations with its neighbours and a little bit of course about the media now in part two I want to talked about the internal situation in the country mrs. Naumann let's come to the domestic situation there are many people in the media and outside who believe that this government has undermined critical constitutional institutions they talk about the Cavalier way in which governments are dismissed in our own natural predation Otakon the judges are upset the Collegium in particular about the fact that senior appointments to the Supreme Court are held up the press talks about the politicization of the Election Commission or the politicization of investigative agencies but the truth is and you notice exactly similar criticisms were made under Congress government's particularly from Indira Gandhi's day onwards so in this specific area is the Modi government worse than any of its predecessors no but how does it satisfy or House it brings comfort to any young Indian boy or girl who has become an adult to say these faults were there these gross egregious mistakes were there how does it bring any two wrongs don't make a right we are talking about making this a better country for the next generation is the next generation interested in being told we will never be a better country we were as bad the twenty years ago is that an answer that is no answer every new government comes and says I will be better I will make it better for you question is as mr. Modi made it better that's the only question there's no point comparing it with what happened 20 years ago 30 years what's your answer to that question which question has mr. Modi made of course not I'm a very worried person economy can be mended set right relations with neighbors can be set right but if the social fabric of this country is torn asunder it lies in tatters today it cannot be set right Gandhiji could not set it right despite his long fasts he could not set it right and he died a bitter man we can you and I set right of this country goes up in flames and you believe that there's a danger of that happening today there is great anger among the Dalits seeting anger among the Dalits there is mutual suspicion among Hindus and Muslims Christians you saw the Catholic Archbishop and the Catholic Diocese beginning to speak up about their insecurities the tribals are angry now if a government cannot reassure the weakest sections of its people what is the point of the government reassuring a middle class in the upper-middle class there anyway have their own resources to fall back upon but what about these poor and weak sections in that context let me ask you do you fear that India is becoming a mojit or majoritarian intolerant country a country where nationalism Trump's all the liberal principles of our Constitution this government is majoritarian it tries to impose majoritarian principles in as many institutions and places as possible but I don't think the people of this country have yet turned majoritarian is there a danger that the government is pushing in that direction and it could succeed government is trying but there is a pushback today middle class Hindus educated Hindus walk up to me at airports airport terminal railway stations and tell me why don't you guys do something come back in 2019 and I joke and tell them when you vote we'll come back if you don't vote how will we come back but there is a pushback the Hindus are beginning to realise that this is a dangerous trend you cannot alienate Muslims Christians duddits tribals yet call yourself a democratic brutal society let's talk for a moment specifically about the manner in which Muslims and Dalits have been targeted taunted and cheated I'm talking specifically about what happens to Muslims in al roker scones or on a suburban train from Delhi to Florida were I'm talking about the fact that ballots aren't allowed to wear mustaches ride horses or sometimes in Gujarat even participate in down there festivals how do you respond to this minute this is this is talking the majoritarian ambition in the average person everybody wants to lord over someone else I think one should one should stamp it out not Stoke it what this government is doing is it's talking those ambitions stoking those desires and wherever it's possible for example what one or two people belonging to a community will not do when 500 people joined together they do it would pay leucon he was there every day in that village in that house and I'm sure he had meat in his house on three four times a week or even ten times a month but one or two people who passed by his house did not dare go and drag him out and lynch mob but a mob did it this is the point you and I may be completely decent when we are walking alone but we act we are together in a group of a 500 people we may completely change character let me go to some of the things in the last four months the BJP MLAs and BJP MPs have said about Muslims Rajasthan MLA said the way the Muslim population is increasing the existence of Hindus is in danger a bJP MP said Muslims got India divided what is the need for them to live in India they should either go to Pakistan or Bangladesh what business had they been here do you fear that these aren't just prejudicial comments that people lacking in civility express but this is a deliberate attempt to polarize the country what is it is it succeeding well it did succeed Muzaffarnagar it succeeded if you go by the results of the election next year but it doesn't succeed always you didn't succeed in Alward but the government is trying or MPs are trying to polarize the country to say government is trying maybe not entirely accurate certainly the RSS and BJP which run the government are trying and this is deliberate absolutely this is the RSS is philosophy go back and read what the founders of RSS if founding leaders of RSS the first two or three leaders of RSS have written about their concept of Hindu Rashtra hippie Buddhist do when atrocities happen on Dalits Muslims or tribals when horrible rapes happen and we've had god forbid more than our fair share of them in the last couple of years there's a lot of concern about the fact that the Prime Minister is silent or if he does be God it seems as if it's dragged out of him the BJP on the other hand defends his silence on the grounds that there's no need for the prime minister to speak on every occasion now the truth is that you are a member of a government we're also the prime minister of the day dr. Manmohan Singh was renowned for his silence is there any comparison between Manmohan Singh silence and Narendra Modi silence is he I think mr. Manmohan dr. Manmohan Singh may have been silent but I don't think there was any occasion like Oona or Oona or cut wah where the Prime Minister did not speak I don't know you'd have to tell me whether there was an equivalent situation where the Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh did not condemn it in the case of mr. Narendra Modi he lapses into silence for several days after the incident and then many refers to it he refers to it not the incident but he refers to it as part of something which he disapproves he doesn't even name the incident doesn't name the town and doesn't condemn the visa glancing indirect references you ever ask yourself the question does mr. Modi lack moral leadership or is it simply that he's reluctant to exercise it this is a question that's appeared in media commentary very frequently of late you ask yourself that question well I don't know I don't know and I don't want to answer something which I don't know I'm assuming that anyone who has ambition to be Prime Minister has the desire to make a difference question is what is that difference that he wishes to make what is that difference that he wished to make when he sat on that chair you can only gather a glean it from his writing speeches behavior etc it seems to me that mr. Modi's essentially an RSS man and his mission is that it's only when you establish a Hindu Rashtra a government which is dominated and controlled by Hindus and imbued with the philosophy of the RSS and all power is controlled in the central government which is what they are concept of Hindu Rashtra is when that happens everything else will fall in place if that is the desire and ambition with which he became prime minister I think that is pretty dangerous for this country the important thing is you understand mr. Modi's speeches actions comments in line with the belief that he is out here to impose and create Hindu Rashtra that's the only thing that gives a logic to his behavior absolutely look at every Chief Minister they've installed he's a pro shark look at the person who is now projected as the chief campaigner of the BJP in any by-election its yogi Adityanath look at every governor they were appointed dyed-in-the-wool RSS perch Ark but you also appointed the series of governors who were congressmen even Congress ministers until just a few weeks earlier Shivraj Patil is an example I'm not denying that but then we're quite transparent about it we knew who he was what he did all his life what do you know about the governor's will they've appointed did you know anything about these governor's before they were appointed can I put this you there's a tremendous even president covent when he was governor did you know anything about mr. Cohen before his appointed governor and a couple of Governors in Bengal and through Perot make these outrageous statements from time to time did you know anything about their work before they were appointed governor I take a point often when people in the media or in conversation point to mistakes that governors are making or ham-handed or abuse of power by the government the BJP responses to point out that much the same happened earlier with the Congress but a recent a recent example is what happened in Karnataka the behavior of the governor and the way the BJP government of the center was seen to be behind it and no doubt Raja bravado was rightly criticized the central government was rightly criticized but the BJP is response and there is some truth in it and that's why I'm putting it to you is to turn around and say is this any worse than what Governor Romney all did to NTR or what governor jugman did to Farooq Abdullah and many people say unfortunately there is a unhappy tradition of in India of bad people being appointed governors abusing their powers and abusing the power to dismiss governments your governments have done it they are doing it how do you I've answered that I'm an 18 year old I finished my college or school or whatever I'm stepping in this world I'm not interested in knowing that what you are doing wrong is the same wrong that was done 20 years ago I want you to tell me what are you doing right what will you do better how will you make India better for me that's what I'm interested in that context let me put this dude there is I I just asked you a question do that Democrats and Republicans in America every time there's some wrong committed by a Republican president who they point out to a Democratic president seventy years ago it comforted that wrong what is it hearken back to the past what about it is very much an Indian way of conducting political discussions let me put this tube there is a view that something that strengthens mr. Modi's hand is that the face that heads the opposition to him is Rahul Gandhi many people believe that mr. Gandhi hasn't got the qualities to be Prime Minister others are not impressed by him how do you respond to the fact that there is this view that mr. Gandhi in a sense is an insurance policy for Narendra Modi well only time and the people will tell today there is a ABP CSDs survey the results have been published yes mr. Modi leads mr. Gandhi by a few points but mr. Gandhi is gained mr. Modi is lost is a takeaway from that survey in terms of popular votes the Congress UPA alliance or combination of parties will edge out the BJP nd a combination of parties and if you add the BSP and SP and others we will defeat the BJP NDA that's what the CST is survey says now this may change after three months this way or that way but the point is election is a year away at that time I've always believed that India's elections have become a collection of state elections so it will depend upon how states vote quite rightly in a federal country it's the way states vote which matters after all mr. Trump became president only because three states vote in a particular way can I interrupt you at this point Mamta Banerjee has also said that the next elections should be considered and strategized state wise and in each state the party that is the most powerful should fight 1 to 1 against the BJP that is the best chance of a enforcing opposition unity and be making it very difficult for mr. Modi to win 272 again in a sense you saying that you think along similar lines there is a difference I believe that India's national election as a collection of state elections there was a time when we had truly national elections I think that came to an end in 1971 or so after that we have had collection of state elections and it'll differ from state to state and in every state we must put together a formidable combination of parties that can take on the BJP I think mention miss Banerjee Mamta ji mentions me says one to one I don't think she means that every other party should withdraw from the election it can't be one named party alone fighting there but there should be an understanding but helium hundreds it's in the importance about the seats now I think it's possible to arrive at such an understanding in most of the states of India you should strategic understanding and wisdom by align the JDS and Carnatic to play the reed role to take the chief ministership even though you have double the number and that ensured not just opposition unity but defeat of the BJP do you think Congress should adopt similar thinking you see in other states in my my calculation Congress is the lead party in about twelve or thirteen states where we will take on the BJP I'm telling you in fact in some states it's binary the choice is binary it's Congress or BJP Gujarat Rajasthan Madhya Pradesh in 12 or 13 states we are the lead party but that doesn't mean the other parties will be ignored or should be ignored they have to be given at least a token presence but I think in eight or nine states the Congress is not the lead party we must allow the lead party to take the lead and Congress play the subsidiary our risk must follow the leader there which is what happened in Carnatic in a sense although you are the lead party well we we we're the lead party we are the lead party in Carnatic in terms of popular votes we lead even over the BJP but the circumstances are such that if you want to form a non BJP government today it can only be formed with the JDS becoming Chief Minister but you're also saying by association that we are not the lead party you should be happy to play a subsidiary role because the important thing is to provide a united front to defeat the BJP not allow your internal rivalries to give the BJP a let out absolutely and I think more and more people in the party are beginning to come come around to that view is this becoming the consensus view in the Congress party that's what I'm saying more and more people are willing to accept the reality that while we are the lead party in twelve or thirteen states and others must follow our lead where we are not the lead party we must allow that party to take the lead that's very clear mr. Don now before I end the interview I want to ask you one or two questions about yourself know nothing about myself earlier this month and this was in all the papers the income tax department announced the divided ridings I declined to answer all those questions I just won't ask you one question no I decline to answer but I was relevant as far as I'm concerned they're they've pursued a vendetta for four years they'll pursuit for the remaining 12 months on our faces when they suggest specific sounds that the properties they claim who haven't declared I don't think you should are they making a waste your time asking this question I decline to answer let me then put it like this are you being picked on and targeted because you're an opponent of the government and a particularly critical and outspoken one is this a vendetta it is that's the only reason I can think of there's no other reason in other words these are faults and there are no other reasons so these are faults and concocted cases brought by the impact I'm reading more questions I've never allowed the media to discuss a case it's in your interest to discuss it in the media it can only be discussed in a court of law I understand they put it like this if it is the case these are false and concocted cases doesn't that suggest that the same departments in your time or in the time of Congress government was doing the opposite to the order Polat not at all you can't point to a single case when I was finance minister where we had targeted anyone through a false case not a single case maybe not when you often ask mr. Congress government well again you go back to that old thing which I said I've answered it repeatedly my last can only speak for the period when I was finance bonus my last question because there are so many cases that they're bringing up against you and your family let's do this does it worry you that some people maybe many people will conclude there's no smoke without fire it so you're wasting your time asking these questions I will decline to answer every question of yours you're not worried that this could affect the way the public sees you the waste in your diet I am asking the Christian all right I would persist thank you very much for a comprehensive interview for which I'm very grateful okay thank you