Why is it important to study gender, power and political institutions and how to go about it?



good morning everyone and welcome back to the second session of today's seminar my name is Mary C Murphy and I'm a lecturer in department of government and politics the colleague or Fiona's and so I was delighted to be asked to chair this session I think it's very rare I've ever chaired a session or a panel are being involved in a panel so this is very nice and congratulations to Fiona for today's event is and it's it's a fantastic event with a really wonderful array of speakers and range of perspectives and I really am delighted to be part of this and we have five speakers for this particular panel and this is a panel which is based around the feminist institutionalism international network so it's looking at gender and why it's important to study gender and power and political institutions and but maybe more especially about how to go about that process of study and so we have five very eminent speakers here and we're I'm just gonna give a brief introduction to each of them that speak for about 10 minutes and then we'll open up to the floor for Q&A and but our first speaker Fiona's doing a stellar job today the other corner either doesn't like you and I suspect it's a logic and whatsit you've already been introduced at to Fiona this morning but and we've met you only before and she was here to deliver the Philip Monaghan like cher recently and and fiona has a fantastic CV which was recently added to by that wonderful award which I think you're picking up tomorrow Thursday in Amsterdam and so Fiona is a real star of the gender politics custodiat gender politics so nice what we decided was that in that I would just give a very brief context to institutionalism others so I would give you a bit of context about the history and origins of feminist institution ISM why did we embark on but what is a collaborative very building project what the problems attend saw them what's the distance we traveled if I have time I don't want to set up three sets of challenges going forward so first off the history and origins of FI so I think that what I want to stress here is that really from its earliest days an important part of feminist critical science has been concerned by institutions of state society and crucially interconnection particularly explaining the under-representation of women in public institutions and physical life and the marginalization and misrecognition of so-called women's issues in policy and the outcomes in consequences for women as a as a category and different groups of women in terms of resources policy legitimacy and power and this has had a number of dimensions documenting and explaining if you like the processes and the outcomes of the entry of women including feminists into legislative executive bureaucratic and judicial institutional arenas and specific strategies of feminist institution building which we can trace back to the kind of pioneering work that happens in Australia around early on the Australian semuc rats who moved into institutions of governance and that were also then studied scientists what we've seen are I think a whole set of international norm changes particularly around quotas around policy agendas typically around gender based violence gender mainstreaming they are in and of themselves remarkable cases of norm and policy diffusion and they are almost entirely ignored by wider policy studies wider science and then there's been another set of errors which is really the impact of broader institutional change on women on gender relations on gender equality and justice and that's if you like paying attention to restructuring check trends in many advanced democratic welfare states involving processes of marketization regionalization decentralization the other statements retrenchment constitutional reform and then efforts at institutional redesign experienced in both globally peaceful and violent transitions to democracy and new processes of state institution building I'm thinking of Georgina's work on Latin America about missing work man Eastern Europe so really from the 1990s onwards there was a real concern with opening up what had been the black box if you like stage at state institutions against also I think a backdrop of theoretical and empirical interests in variations and how to explain variations of ism across countries and if you like this empirical and theoretical work was triggered by real-world feminist engagements in and against the states which led in turn I think to this theoretical reconsideration of political and state institutions and the work so the idea if you like was that we needed to move beyond like documenting sex imbalance and sexism to and starting to look at institutional level analysis analyzing the underlying structures which underpin these institutionalized patterns of advantage and disadvantage agenda so I think what's important here is under the understanding of institutions and as important modes of constraint but also as resources for actors and a lot of the emphasis in the work as being feminist actors can use to affect or resist change so feminist political science have kind of circles what's called the new institutionalist analysis don't know whether it can called new many more but really since the 1990s so just going gaytan's work by Louise Chapel and Laura Wells only to the 2000s being aware than in 2007 and so on so the key mantra in institutionalism is that institutions matter in the organization of political life they are the rules of the game and whether by design or by evolution they shape behavior interests and outcomes to which feminists institutionalism answer simple key part of the mantra that those institutions are gendered and gendered effects so what do we mean by judges institutions so far using the term genders I think that whatever high scholarship done is they've drawn upon the wider feminist social science which understands gender classic kind of scope definition is a primary way of signifying relationships of power and that they intersect with other power relations such as those based on race class so to say that an institution is gendered using at home in this respect means that the constructions of masculinity and femininity are deeply enmeshed in the daily culture or logic of political institutions so what I could argue is what you think is also essential to how far you take this forward is that rather than existing out there in society or fixed within individuals which they then bring into the institution gender relations practices and ideologies are produced and reproduced within institutional leaders such as Parliament's political parties etc and they're used in ways which justify explain and legitimize institutions and their gender patterns of hierarchy and exclusion and I think that what this means is that the informal is as important as the formal in getting at the work that gender does and the effects of gendered institutions so Vivian Lowndes who's not here today but is a king Arthur that's it she helps we break this down into rules about gender you could say rules about sex and gender so could something you could think of marriage files on the one hand or sex discrimination legislation is a more progressive version of that rules that have gendered effect some rules on the face of it look neutral impact differentially on women and men and we could pick up on some of the examples already today so we could think about the informal rules that govern academic careers which are typically built around male career paths of progression in terms of promotion and prestige and salary by particularly mobilities have been able to move from institutions institution where as female academics generally have less mobility and therefore fewer chances to progress and finally the insight but we also have gendered actors using the rules so for example you could think about female and male actors who occupy the same position so they have the same positional power but have access to very different resources may be subject to different sorts of power dependencies and thoughts of different influence and efficacy so example we can think of the way that women politicians are routinely excluded from powerful informal networks as a result of the norms of sociality and I think the new institutions have had despite our stunningly good article mostly behind agenda but the argument of that is gendered necessarily impacts on how we conceive of concepts like dependence what is or isn't a critical juncture logics of appropriateness standard operating procedures unintended consequences and the processes of locking in and embedding new institutions so what were the problems that feminist political scientists were reaching out to fi to solve so I think that feminist critical science and fi as a sub-branch at that are interested in real world problems that we mentioned earlier so how does change happen what are the causal mechanisms what's the role of timing or sequence why did changing the formal rules not results in substantive change and when reforms do happen why so often are they ruled back marion saw a reflecting on her early work on australia's fellow crimes recently said we didn't have the theories and tools to and i think many of us were frustrated at the limits of social movement during particularly physical tunity structures which this is drove on Georgina's which seemed to over third and actors the women's movement actors became if you like in the kind of theories of change there's over emphasis on their agency and far too much reliance on grassroots women's movements as motors of change all the leave on turistic counts on the other hand female and feminist actors inside institutional Alina's and if you like a need fail to move beyond the over determination I mean all institutions in where we are over determine go to other institutions but to try and find a midway through to capture messiness and complexity but also to have some explanatory power that we couldn't keep going with these credibly detailed fine-grain analysis from which we found it hard to then draw some these modest generalizations I think he called frustration as well as some feminist approaches which dismissed you know we've seen an institutionalization in the real world feminist moving into institutions women moving into institutions and a frustration that approaches which dismissed those efforts of outsiders within as futile kind of an underplaying of agency kind of approaches which saw corruption is inevitable so the question that Johnny lot and Jessica is I think the godmother of x-5 was how did we move beyond documenting and describing patterns of discrimination and exclusion to analyzing how institutions shape and reproduce gender power relations and more importantly or as importantly how those institutions can be challenged and the argument was remain degenerate institutions of crucial understanding power in appointees so how would we done so far but we've grown from a workshop in Edinburgh about a dozen people to a global network of around a hundred maybe more and we started off by asking is there or can there be a feminist institutionalism is so what surprised how much of you operationalized and what's the added value of this approach for both mainstream and feminist political analysis we've explored I think the synergies between institutional theory and gender analysis with integrated gender analysis with institutionalism week I think demonstrated widely informal is as important as formal we've looked at actors discourses and this is still a lot to do but we've begun to either adapt or develop toolkits and methods to try and uncover the ways in which gendered institutions do their work again taking from channeling Vivian Lowndes if Emma's institution needs to find strategies and tools for servicing if you like and then finding ways to resist dismantle discriminatory and exclusionary effective gendered institutions in different contexts and that might be in order to better understand why gender equality x' reforms fail or succeed or are limited in their effects how gender equality commitments can be embedded beyond those kind of moments of opportunity moments of activism and the influence of individual actors in terms for breaking rules playing the rules and they training the rooms and I would add another dimension to that which is also what is the gendered impact of some of these wider protest processes of change which we see both progressive and regressive I think that what were demonstrated is that the rules and norms and practices of out gent architect in early sticking that there are very complex institutional negatives which work to limit change and I think in part because gender is such a fundamental part of the status quo and the way the digital see if you like of the status quo we've also I think demonstrated that that doing that this is not fixed but there's a daily practicing of gender which can be seen I think as it has a really important mechanism through which more general processes of institutional form and innovation can be resisted or indeed progressed it's an empirical question which direction although those are good in pessimism about the direction so we've raised questions as to where the variations in gender practice and in gender regimes of different institutional settings may provide some explanatory power for wider patterns of institutional variance and whether if you like changes in gender relations or the wider gender order which is the overall societal gender foundations and formations may provide an important source of externally generated change or on the other hand by the local variations in institutional generations and tensions may in turn trigger internal generation change so this considerable potential for productive dialogue between new institution ism fi rise that with the few wonderful exceptions major institution is largely continued to I think I might be out of time so I'll leave my thanks very much Shana I think that sets up the panel for for looking in more depth at some of the themes that you've touched on but I think it also points to sort of the powerfulness of the network that you've created as well which is a real testament to all your work and I'm delighted to introduce professor Georgina Whalen who joins us from the University of Manchester today and Georgina has published on many aspects of gender and politics political economy in global governance and she's also has been involved in the ER CRC advanced grant looking specifically at an institutional change from a gender perspective and Georgina is the co-director of of this particular in it I'm going to focus primarily on the role of the informant and what it can tell us about gender and power and how to go about this kind research and as part of this going to highlight as the owners dominate both the role and institutions and their rules and their norms and their practices but also the key roles that critical actors can play within those institutions using and sort of manipulating that the rules are norms and I think this is particularly important but I think that it's important in all contexts for understanding out extremely male-dominated institutions were in gendered ways and I have an understanding of the informal and kind of inform how we can get changed within those institutions and I think we're going to talk about various issues as spectrum I think probably I'm somewhere at the kind of agentic end of the spectrum for feminist institution lists so I think perhaps I give more space for critical actors to act within institutional constraints and particularly within critical junctures I think actors really matter so I think I maybe we can talk about actors maybe less controlled by institutions and perhaps I never saw before that Louise and and Fiona do and I think as an example of this so a critical job to just look at the mess that is brexit in the UK and what different actors may take the rats but make in creating and actuated that mess and I'm using to use example some of my research about global economic governance where there has been change but I think it's still perhaps perhaps some of the most male-dominated set of institutions are at the International and the global level and I think to understand how global economic government is gendered and the possibilities and the limits for change we have to uncover the hidden life of global economic government's institutions and as Louise and I argued several years ago and again you can't achieve change in those institutions without understanding the role of the informal at the very least and also how the informal might be able to be used as part of strategies to get change and I think the same arguments go through universities often they're still very male-dominated at the higher levels including you know Vice Chancellors even in my institution where we have female at the head she's actually surrounded then at the next level by a coterie of predominantly men so she travels around the world you know representing the university while the men actually run the university and the day-to-day sense so I think we have that's why I would have to look the most formal with informal institution the informal within formal institutions but also at informal institutions and organizations of urban economic government so that's why it's important to look at this in life not just the top layer of what you see only the other day but to go underneath that look behind the scenes at both formal and informal institutions now that brings up the question of how we actually do that kind of research it's generally acknowledged to be difficult and there were several different ways I think we can do this perhaps the most common or widely use this index qualitative research even ethnographic methods talk about right okay so the reason Natalie you're going to talk a bit about rapid S&OP of me but I think that's not only the only ways of doing that I think we can supplement in many cases that in-depth qualitative work with quantitative analysis tune in certain contexts I've got a bit of work about the UK parliamentary expenses scandal seeing the regime the expenses regime in place before the scandal erupted into government as an informal set of norms and practices or some informal institution there were very few formal rules and it was mainly all organized and all they and I'm down you can only really fully as that's how those institutions which ended by supplementing it views and documents by actually analyzing male and female they please behavior quantitatively we want to know debates about corruption or men within as likely or less likely to be corrupt you can only really find out how far the female MPs were actually more or less guilty of any behavior deemed to be wrong doing the male MPs by looking quantitatively at their expenses claims and in the same way if you want to find out when male female ip's change their behavior more than male MPs under the new formal institutional regime put into place after the expensive scandal by doing that quantitatively and the answers you find is that pre the scam of breaking the male and female MPs were equally equally engaged in behavior that was seen as wrongdoing but the female that is with treats differently by the media and the electorate and afterwards the female appease changed their behavior more than the male and feeds on to the new form already something which you wouldn't have been able to work out without that website development and I think also what you say about this of how you research things that have already happened as someone who's very influenced by historical institutionalism if you want to research events in the past that you can't observe now to SME graphic methods how do you do that in an in-depth qualitative way I have you supplement interviews and things like that and another Avenue I think I'm going to look at is also something that's useful to diplomatic studies practice theory which comes out of diplomatic studies which obviously have to look at micro practices and communities of practice where the bat might also help us thinking about analyzing informal institutions I'm just about research everything about our global economic governance and the role of the informal in that and the starting point is that the global financial crisis brought some important changes to global economic government's and it became much more diffuse but broader much bigger range of institutions involved coalition's of different actors like NGOs and corporations in public-private partnership and it also brought as part of this more diffuseness of verbal economic governance a bigger role reform of networks and organizations and the g7 and the g20 in particular are the biggest examples of this and I think reinventing and as you can see from this picture just from this weekend it's becoming leaders forum of the key countries middle-income countries Secretariat it's organized by a troika of the host country in this case Japan the previous country to host the g20 and then the subsequent one it started off just by managing the global financial crisis but it's broadened out to cover all of much broader agenda since then and it's been very little studied by gender scholars expect review of the most notable focusing on either the diplomatic aspect or the legal aspect but there's been very little by either IR scholars or IP scholars so I'm interested and done a little case study in how this very informal network or Club and some people call it and very male-dominated group as you can see from this picture came to adopt and then gender equality measure of increasing of a goal to increase women's employment by 25% by 2025 this was adopted at the g20 meeting in Brisbane in 2014 so how'd this happen I mean firstly we can look at there a crease and this is 2012 the same is true in 2014 there were actually more women leaders involved in the g20 at this point and it was actually the high point of women's leadership between 2012 and 2014 but we have to go under the surface and not just look at the women that the leaders we also have to examine the behind-the-scenes roles and particularly in terms of actors the so called up Sherpas who do most of the negotiating at the g20 not just the meetings the summits like this one but for the whole year and they come from the member countries this is a picture of g20 Seoul Sherpas in 2010 they come not just from the member countries but also the knowledge organizations like the OECD that do a lot of work for the g20 given that it has its no officials or secretariat and its own in this relatively informal structure and as you can see from that picture there traditionally these scheppers have been very male-dominated but in fact if you look at 2014 the shirtless this is another so-called family picture happy on a trip out of the green it was actually a high point for women's participation not just as leaders but also for women shepherds there were far more cream of justice than usual and in particular the Australians sherpa was a woman which given that the host country has a lot of influence on the agenda of the g20 is actually in the absence of formal structures was actually very significant and also the Sherpa for the OECD which is to keep one of the key knowledge organizations for the OECD there's also a woman that they were women Sherpas from the u.s. from the ILO and various other countries and you can see how they use the particular sort of informal institutional context of the g20 in various sort of deliberate ways firstly by framing policy proposals in a particular narrow way you like that fitted into the sort of dominant gender equality of smart economics discourse and also fitted into the Australian agenda for that year which was about growth and the growth and employment so increasing women's console-based with employment fitted that arguing that it would help to solve some of the post global financial crisis economic problems boosting women's productivity they very deliberately produced a lot documentation to back up their arguments of the OECD led by measure took the lead on this introduced documents to crucial minute meetings they used a lot of this is familiar with what we've talked about in the previous session male allies to particularly the Japanese male Sherpa introduced some of these heat measures and argued on the side for in favorite proposals and then used a lot of informal networks to try and neutralize opposition to ouzel particularly from Mexico but also try to do it from there was a lot of competition from Russia and China and helped by some outside activists organizing things and I think it shows how critical actors in the right positions can use the informality of an organization like the g20 to achieve some very narrowly frayed gender equality measures and I think shows how we need to look at both formal and the informants get a full picture of gender actors and how their tactics and strategies need to use informal as well as formal mechanisms change thanks very much Georgina we didn't manage to get through a session without mentioning basis and I'm delighted to welcome professor who leads Chappelle to speak next and Louise joins us from the University of New South Wales Sydney she's the director of the Australian Human Rights Institute there and if is another and gender politics specialist and global gender politics specialist with two award-winning monographs under her belt she's also a co-director of this particular network well okay thank you everyone for coming along today and a special thank you to Fiona for organizing this and I've been here as a visitor in court for two weeks and have had the most wonderful time I'm very sad to be leaving with something new but thrilled that we were able to come together today to have this this discussion so Natalie and I are working is a bit of a tag team today and we're really going to dig into the how doing feminist institutionalism and giving you a snapshot of a rapid ethnography that Natalie and I were involved in so this was a product that was a project was funded by the Australian Research Council in what's called a linkage grant which is where you engage directly with industry partners it was part of them Natalie's PhD where she'd come back from working in construction in the Middle East to reflect on the time there and it's a place I never thought I'd go in my career into a construction site ever ever but it was so revealing and so interesting and so many similarities between the political world that I've been studying for all the years before that and then now I've got a great fascination for this this industry as well so our research question is you know the Australian construction instruments are very similar across the world is the most male-dominated of all sectors in Australia and efforts to increase the retention the recruitment retention and progression of women has been taken very seriously and there are now pieces of legislation in place to try and ensure some of this occurs but also industry itself as taking this quite seriously and you can see there through their policy documents and so on which in some cases have gold standard policies around particularly recruitment family leave those sorts of things so our question is given that those policies are in place why is it that women's numbers have reduced over time rather than increased over time and why have those those formal broad respect um we were able to identify and document have failed to produce the change that everyone expected that they would so here we are sort of ethnographers on site Natalie did many more sites than me but I just tell you a quick story about my pink hat so we were there to be the flies on the wall to not be seen I arrived on site and the project manager hands me a white hat like that that's wearing there and then you just went oh hold on a minute it had to run for about five minutes down the stairs around the corner into the storeroom to shovel around to find the pink hair the color of your top there it's actually got a cricketing um standing on there it's a breast cancer wrong hat so and I was the only one on site that day to be wearing so much for staying under cover but in other sites having Natalie fit in and that was the point we were there to observe people and to follow them in it we wanted to look at a day in the life so we say we'll meet you at the hour that you start work we will state with you through the end of the day and we'll follow what you do and just sort of act as if we're not here for the first hours are always really like oh you okay or what are you doing and then they got so busy that they didn't they didn't have any sense of what we were doing or where we were they just ignore us basically which was perfect that's what we wanted to happen so we were really looking at if the formal isn't working work what work is informal informal doing here but first we had to look at what the formal rules actually were so we did a very deep dive into the policies of these particular two organizations top tier one construction agencies and then we wanted to get to the informal rules by going in to do an observation of these people in their workplace and the observation happened at the most senior level the project managers down to the sort of people who were doing the day-to-day work I should say that we're looking at professionals here not the trades workers so the engineers the project managers the lawyers their architects and so on so we did here employee vini allowances framework that Fiona's already mentioned the rules about gender the rules with German effects gendered actors working with the rules to see how this all produced particular gendered outcomes and we found this framework incredibly useful in doing an hour analysis and it's something that I've now carried over with me to looking at women in Vietnamese politics which is my current project which is a completely again of different contexts altogether but it's a framework that's working really beautifully in terms of looking at that interaction between the formal and the informal and Francesca Gaines and Vivian lands have written this up you know police in politics as resolution on politics agenda so in terms of the formal rules I've already said we we saw all the usual sorts of things affirmative action in place towards graduate recruitment gender bias training really entrenched I could go on about that for a long time that I went with a lot of women support groups and trying to create women only spaces and they can support each other mentoring no we realized became a problem because there was a few very few senior women at the top and quite a number of women at the entry level that the mid-level had been completely stripped out to the extent that we couldn't find anyone to follow really so we we went and sort out some to do introduced but there are few and far between they'd gone by the time they got to that mid-level we had we saw flexible work arrangements parental leave and so on so we couldn't really fault them in terms of having you know pretty good gender diversity policies in place but what we were seeing was that the rules with gendered effects were much more important here though sort of counteracting and cutting across the gendered rules the positive gendered rules that have been put in place so one thing that you know Natalie really understood this because of her experience in the construction sector that the contract that drove the work was the the absolute king or queen and really the king of the whole process that everything had to run to time because there were huge sort of liabilities and damages if that's than happened and because of that I wouldn't just run to time then run to pre time so the pressure on everyone to get the work done like literally months in advance so the time pressures became just extraordinary and was the thing that was counteracting anything else and I sat behind a project manager one day just while he was doing his emails and he's just going to like delete delete delete I said do mine on you know what were they about bees I said they're from head office I wanna talk to that so who's making all the policies head office they were just gone they wiped out we also see a net real emphasis on safety and there has been a shift in safety standards so we're also thinking maybe ship safety you can shift gender but that was it was it was interesting to see that it was very much focused on the physical not on the emotional and the psychological and that was coming up for us all the time that men were experiencing extreme stress at work high rates of anxiety the constructionist got the highest rate of suicide attempted suicide drug abuse alcohol abuse blah blah blah and we could then tell them why that's the case because of this stress but then in terms of informal rules we were seeing this thing about presenteeism so being on the job in Australia at six days a week there trialing a new process of a five-day workweek it's covered as an innovation it's unbelievable now that that's about a sub-project following an innovative five day work I was with a young woman one day on site it was telling me she had finished her really main part of the job she was a young engineer she was it responsible for bringing all of the steel on the site that it all been managed but she still had to turn up to work on the Saturdays and sit and do nothing because everyone else was doing that and if she didn't turn up she was and she did once not turn up she was harassed she was pilloried there were jokes made about her about being the lazy person on site so there's nothing about efficiency here it's just turning up to the job and that connects to this total availability so you're always on at home and at work and even if your days from 6:00 to a.m. till 9:00 p.m. you're supposed to take your work home with you and often experience and people telling us they're working till 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning and I know we've got some of that in our lives but I've never seen it to such an extent there was a real emphasis on technical prowess and skills how sociability the drinking culture the time going to the rugby together going to sport together it's a very male very mild that sort of environment but also there's an expectation on men that they had to go and perform this as well so this kept coming up to – through our observations people talking about their divorces their difficulty because they were still expected after work to be going off to join into these things because that's the networking and that's where it happens and amazing I'm finding exactly that in Vietnam alcohol and networking is absolutely key and women are seen not to be able to go because their health isn't good enough to withstand the amount of alcohol um we also saw huge differences in pay and the way pay was understood so we was really interesting and that we'll talk more about this the way we paired ourselves up to do this research but I was very much the outside and that very much the insider till we'd see different things I was really noticing a hyper feminine dress codes of the women in head office all in dresses no trousers all in high heels lots of bling and the men the men would turn up in anything that could show nothing works like clothes and no one would very heteronormative expectations about behaviour on sight lots of swearing the language tone and then they turn around and apologize to us and then go on about sorry but now we can talk more about that so we did see this in terms of gendered outcome really significant differences between what was going on in head office and that all the good plans and what was happening on site and when I think about universities and diversity policies and I like to talk to you more about it move on to any Athena Swan stuff it looks so beautiful on paper but who's who's down in the schools and who's down in the sub sections of schools actually watching who's interpreting this and houses are being interpreted based on that sort of local environment we saw so much masculine on display masculine privilege Mac masculine antigen that's written beautifully on this in the PhD but it has a flip side of massive masculine disadvantage and they can see it but they don't talk to each other about it but we did become counselors you know we people were revealing stuff to us especially to Matt because she was seen as being very authentic having had to come from the industry and then there's very obvious expectations around femininity as well and completely not apply mr. kair responsibilities just and this is an industry of course where you're not located in one place you move around you move around your city and it might be from one side to the other yeah and your childcare arrangements being worked out over here and then you've got literally the drive in two hours there are back over the course of the childcare years let alone the school years and so on and no real attention to that so this was rapid ethnography in the fact that we were on site of need Helmand sites six sites across different cities and regional and urban sites we also added many interviews away now go through that and he did an analysis of the the policy documents so we're sort of we were trying to sort of triangulated as we went but I think you're right I think it's hard to do you can't do this work historically really but we were getting historical stories coming to all the time but we there's no way for us to sort of verify that unless it have left an imprint in their documentation anyway that that's a snapshot and I've got to say it was the most revealing research project of every time methodologically like just being on the ground and being accepted as sort of a fly on the wall which surprisingly to me happen incredibly quickly just allowed us to see the informal in a way that you just couldn't have got out we didn't get it out at the interviews he just didn't people just after a day they will trust you and they will tell you that one guy that I was talking with a senior project manager at the end of the day said if you've got any more questions for me and I was deliberately not asking questions and I said no and I said have you got anything more you want to tell me two hours later no way he just told me about his whole life and his challenges at work and his family breakdowns and incredible so full of richness and real real interests so I'm going to hand it over to net now talk about the third project so I'll just start by saying the lads on my on the I just realized that these guys here that keeps later they're actually an Irish so my so today I'm going to talk about you know I'll just going to be more depth about what we how we shaped our projects in terms of methodology and you know really see how we approach getting under the skin of these institutions of these gendered institutions and I guess one of the things that came out for me during this research is that as a female researcher because we're often drawn to this type of work how do you do research in a very male saturated environment especially ethnography where you really do want to be a fly on the wall so as the weeks that you know construction is the most male-dominated sector in the country men have 97 percent of seniors about 88 professionals and trades is the mountains the other thing is that women who enter the sector is always said leave the sector about 40 percent faster and so other ways that we're really interested in going to see how it was that how these policies started were created in head office camasta often by women how they traveled on to construction sites whether they stack on sites whether these sites were Kingdom's at their own with their own set of rules of use and I guess for us the ethnography really allowed us to see what the rules in the contract but there are also other informal rules and institutions like being totally available and being the presentation which was very and we could see the sanctioning the beauty of the ethnography so in terms of reminisces institutionalism I'm just going to do a brief recap again as much and on some no institutions as stable reoccurring operating systems and do's and don'ts that actors learn on the ground and in construction companies who studied as I said you know you had your formal construction contract which was very important you also had legislation particularly safety legislation was often angled against gendered policies which was interesting and you had different policies and often there were we and then we we had informal practices and norms and what was really interesting is we've got to see that gendered logic appropriateness of Louise has turned we could see it in in this you know for example there's sexist graffiti we saw marking all the walls on construction sites would blindly walk past where there was a trip hazard that would be identified and seen and corrected I will pass this penetration sign which says you know there's a little core behind it so be careful if you're going to do any work you may tumble down the core and afterwards I said to the construction manager after a week I said you know haven't seen it so you know there was a gendered logic appropriateness it was okay to sexualize women on the construction site and it was normalized to participate in behaviors and try to mask hegemonic masculinity but as Laos observes you know in ruins unlike the construction sites often tend to shy away from publicity because they're due to their widely accepted nature I guess my construction manager it's so widely accepted to see a penis on a wall or boobs on how fast that they stop seeing it and so it's in sometimes researchers it's hard to detect I mean lucky for us it's often we saw this very time and time again and so in terms of our research project so we analyzed 70 policies at the beginning of two large contractors we did 21 formal interviews we senior leaders and that was really interesting because I actually felt that I conducted most of those and I suspect it was the first time I ever thought about gender until they stepped into the room with me they have seen something a lot of them do about it quite a lot since and we observe 14 company events just to warm up our gatekeepers to build trust and rapport particularly Human Resources who didn't have the power like the senior leaders on the construction sites and then as I said we observed six construction sites and on those sites with shadowed 44 construction management and professionals so the people who are managing the site's often what a white collar University educated and we interviewed 61 of them and the interesting thing is that I did it with a twin and in most cases it was a male researcher Adam and I obviously was the female he the male but I was the construction insider having worked in sector for about 17 years and he the male out some of those Adam and we still need to change and some of our other researchers but what was often you know the case was an Adam was expected to being inside the construction site it was a man which was interesting so I guess one of the things that I found interesting from being a researcher doing you know research in males saturated environment was there was a demand I saw quite divergent informal rules and I won't say we saw them we were always getting access to different rules and once we saw a number of rules and patterns of behavior like present ease and then sanctioning very obvious there were other things that because about how we appeared Jen adapters we got exposure to different things and the other thing that I found interesting in library search is that my gender really stood at front of minivan and inside I wasn't I was far more treated like a woman than I was a construction professional and I kind of ruled out the fact that I wasn't inside I kind of starting that you know midway point between no man's land no woman's land between the two sort of thing when being construction inside and through Adam who was the insider he got vast nothing more exposure to homosocial practices for instance he was given a nickname and I possibly was given one but not to my face and you know he was called ads straightaway but and he also got exposure to things like great exposure to the sexual ization women you know he got exposure to corn where I would stand on the wall and this is the other thing I found interesting they're still old school he's still when Adam actually bought the and so the other thing is too he not often told and spoke about all around the unfair not according to our data in the favor of women so yeah here's some of the so the other thing I will say that our research as we went together onto site and then the end of every site visit we actually we debrief to each other and we highlighted what each of us all on sight that was where we had so much sharing of knowledge but it was also how we were able to sort of correlate the practices that we saw on site and what really shown to us in terms of the informer so yeah he hadn't been called ads yeah and as Louie said you know I counted the number of times people apologize to me in the day which made my father like a truckie but anyway um but where I don't you know no one would have ever used to see Bob in front of me where I've got this beautiful rich homosocial dialogue that was happening in front of him you know here where the men was sort of asking each other to really put some into it when they'll negotiate in their subcontractors that would never have I would have had some exposure but not to that degree and then obviously the sexual ization of a week with women you know Adam was in this case he was in a car and they were were on a military base and I'm watching young women women running and you know the comment was made and you know jeez you don't see that on the side every day and and it really also brought into the picture Adams feeling you know and stay on the radar in terms of yeah the unfair advantage as I said it was it was probably hinted at in the interviews that Adam came up time and time and here you're a woman and then as the outsider I mean you know as a woman I was more see I had to stand at a distance when I was doing the ethnography because I wasn't if I'm especially if I was shadowing a young woman I really wanted to see what was happening and then also the counting apologies every day there was a sexual innuendo and every day I was publicly belittled as well quite aggressively as well and then the thing that really stuck out for me just by having been in the sector for such a long time was that day in day out it was the walking with men on the side he's walking interviews which I think a really rich as well of them revealing and honor ability around mental health yes apologizing belittling in terms of multiple occasions where this happened to me you know real power process of leaving the outsider as well as female but also interviewer and you know I got my first day on site you know a site manager on the way the smoker which is morning tea in Australia he said to me you know I'm having panic attacks and daily there was three men in my whole shadowing experience that did not report these issues around them to health and stress and that was certainly not in to Louise's pointer and masculinity that is really rich gender around and the way that they constrain men and their ability to express those rules so yeah for myself I I started off being the insider but I feel like I was you know less of an insider and this assertive niche type is gross training because a and I felt as I guess through TAS said you know but he failed to describe themselves more as a harpy of Neda you need to either so being that recently my research and male dominant dominated sector there is there's a real echoing of that other nurse still there even as a researcher I guess someone might so what take away is that you know gendered norms that contextual and temporal and that's something you know it's important that you might see it in different contexts but they will have different flavours to them I also it's really conscious of it's really important to how the researcher leaves it footprint in the field their gender footprint particularly in this case where Adams real uneasy how do i navigate the jokes around sexism as a researcher do i perpetuated vice versa and as i said you know our experiences research often mirrored the gender power relations that we actually observed interrupt the flow of that presentation but that was really fascinating I'd miss I'm being a terrible chair and because we've gone way over time but we're going to go on some 1:15 and so that we can hear from Katrina and then have some questions afterwards so thanks very much everybody was fascinating and Katrina Katrina new Dara is a colleague from the school of applied social studies here in UCC and she's been doing a lot of work at an institutional level in terms of the Genevieve program and has an interest in gender politics from that particular institutional perspective so on how to challenge and address gender inequalities in these organizations so my focus has been I suppose on the possibility of change and the nature and effectiveness of interventions for change so why do you acknowledge now that's you know the university is a gendered institution replete with gender power arrangements and asked me to talk about so I'm just want to say about how we might go about doing research on this and just some reflections really from a couple of projects and I've been constant and I didn't think that this is now quite widely acknowledged and you know the university has actually become a focus for change efforts and interventions often driven by national and international policies so together with other colleagues in this university I've been involved in to such universe and interventions one of these was a project called through the glass ceiling which was an intervention aimed at professional development of mentoring for female academics and researchers and the other was called renovate which was an eu-funded action research project to develop and implement a gender equality action plan in our own University I could say we were largely coming from a theoretical perspective that recognized the role of gendered and gender in structures within the university and how all of these intersect and reinforce each other both formal and informal structures in other words both drawing attention to how we do gender in everyday life and how sometimes seemingly small and for now decisions are events or moments actually have a cumulative effect over time and these processes as we've been hearing about already this morning are insidious because they're very often invisibility are less visible and they're hidden in the taken for granted acceptance of how things are done and how things are and in this way they operate very powerfully making the underlying issues much harder to identify and challenge thoughts we learn from these two projects through the glass ceiling and generate about power arrangements in the university and kind of focus on three key areas the first of these is and what we us was realized was that power holding in the sense of the authority to influence how things are done in an institution it slippery it moves around it's never bested in one individual or one party or one committee and this became really evident to us as we sought to find the actors with influence and capacity within the organizations we found that we were constantly being referred on research on this we were involved in action research and we were seeking to implement actions for change but also researching the process of implementation so we took a reflective approach and we documented our experience so that we were going along into our reflections and this reflection I think helped us to crystallize our talks about the very slippery nature of authority and but of course this slipperiness doesn't mean that gendered power or patriarchal arrangements don't exist but it does point us to the role of the informal less visible such cultural processes that interacts with the formal and that worked to reproduce uneven car arrangements and I think and Sarah Alma's work provides us with brilliant insights into some of the ways in which this works and she uses the concept of strategic inefficiency to refer to it the way that things appear to not be working in the system and so you know rules are not being implemented but actually that's how the system works that's how the system reproduces itself how it maintains a state so the other kind of second point Donna make is that I suppose we realized as well that targeting formal rules and policies on their own doesn't work proposals for rule changes can win approval and endorsement efficiently it's a very similar to what we've just heard about but the implementation doesn't necessarily follow in génifique we were very ambitious and we voted to achieve structural transformation notice and as we worked to build the legitimacy of our proposed gender actions for the university we were made constantly aware I think of the power of the informal to undermine the former so we could take one proposed action one example such as a policy of a minimum of 40% women on this most strategic pilot of machines within the organization this type of policy might be officially endorsed implementation doesn't necessarily follow what I think is going on here it's like messy reality the governance structures involved formal and informal procedures that are it serves highly genders that govern how people get on to committees how people are invited on to committees and that involve layers of ex officio representations of self committees on to other committees and other committees and informal you know patterns of being invited on to them and they also involve related structures of status prestige and privilege that are highly gendered and it had to be enforced and these norms and therefore implementation in reality is actually very difficult at so another word is trying to bring out about a change like that to bring yourself against the cold face of institutional gingerpower arrangements that worked undermine resists and ignore a decision that's made on paper or that's endorsed as a good idea and I think in terms of how we do research then it does raise challenges for doing research session can capture this messiness and that can get beyond the official discourses to the less visible processes and the current thing I thought that I'd like to say is that what we found actually sorry Alfred change happens in unexpected ways and that the really powerful changes happen when gender consciousness is raised among all actors from the very top to the very bottom of the organization and you get to kind of a collective impetus for change being mobilized and in through the glass even actually we found that the most exciting outcome was the creation of a space for those who are most affected by inequalities ie women to connect to share to build a sense for thirsty for change in naming the gender issue and beginning to challenge things I'm similarly in genophage I think we're probably most proud of our impact on building a momentum for change and by raising awareness across the institution raising the question and reduce amaizing the discussion of gender issues within the university and again I think this raises interesting questions for us as researchers about how we can capture institutional change if it actually happens in unexpected ways and an unpredictable spaces and it highlights the importance of paying attention to the spaces of resistance as well as the spaces of the power orders and as we're doing our research I'm going to finish off with you first of all I think in the contexts the current climate that we've got a bit kind of increasing attention to gender and diversity and the proliferation almost are formally sanctioned policies and plans then the Floridian former can become even more informal and the importance of folks in even more of the informal impulse research and policy I think becomes even more important secondly and I think that efforts to address gender power structures and inequalities can't succeed unless they involve what those were most affected by those power structures ie women and in particular those women who are most disadvantaged by the system and I think the processes have changed have to be practice app a jury and have to open spaces but also most affected to shape the agenda not necessarily to do the work of implementation which is what happens but actually to speak into the penis Institute and another point I think that's worth making and that and came to me in the previous session where we spoke about the importance of male allies and so on I also think the importance of cross-disciplinary alliances it's really important and our own universities are spaces of you know multiple disciplines and I suppose I'm kind of very conscious as someone who isn't a political scientist of the connections between the work we're doing and the work you know the social science its political sciences and so on but also that very often the spaces of our committees and boards and so on across the university are cross-disciplinary spaces where we can actually support one another I think and that we can use you know and alliances and make alliances to actually progress the agenda in those spaces and finally I suppose just a comment about research methods and research on institutions does need to be very cognizant of the circle and less visible ways in which some power relations work which produced and reproduced institutions and so how you know what kinds of research methods can help us to get at these and certainly I would agree with previous speakers that we need to involve qualitative methods at Nebraska methods and so on and I think we also need to ask come from reframe your search projects and research problems in a way that allows us to get a face as well and what research questions do we need to ask in the first place very important gender awareness particularly in this institution so I would like to pay tribute to you for that can I invite the five speakers to take to the stage with have about 10 minutes or so for questions and I might just say at the XS are somebody who's not a specialist in this particular area I've been really struck by the presentations the synergies between them well I think what stood out for me most especially was the power of the informal all of you to a certain extent stress that and that's it's a very valuable finding challenging a link between the leaving so they want me to tell us what's finding what's not here to the reader but my going to be actually that's where the power of internalized where is unique stuff and it moves from one to the other so I suppose my question is maybe it's advice I need but it's just to put that out there and then like two other questions because we don't know who'd like to do you wanna take because and I think having engaged I work at the border and both of them have their constraints and I was pointing to that too you know filing friendly places to publish can be that can be the challenge and it's not that your work isn't important than good but this in to the wrong readers who are not getting the important point you're making because I think you're exactly right that the there is sort of there's so much blurriness in international nor even you know hard international law is very soft compared to the domestic laws so I think you're right to be talking about it you know in sensitive spectrum art continuum or something like that but maybe it's it's more associate legal issue maybe you had a feminist one at that so hang out for favourable journals will be there okay I would say an international feminist sleepy journal would be very friendly to your work and then I mean it there is that problem has been we just keep talking to it narrow audience but better to start somewhere but let's have a chat and the second question Natalie or the rescan sorry so the question was um doing institution like no quickly yeah and in terms for us because we used a variety of methods so looking at the formal documentation first and then interviews but also been common is that there's different types of interviewing and you know I think I mentioned that walking to use really useful because some not looking at each other and people reveal a lot more also spending time with the person observing what they're doing and then maybe interviewing as Laurie said you know you the richness in those interviews were really evident looking at the documented landscape so really taking observing one of our companies are amazing how this incredible campaign that was happening on their screen savers on the arrests everywhere like but it was completely contradictory to what but there was you know all about well-being and and you know yet and they even had a beautiful brochure yet what was you know devastating was the man who told me about his panic attacks as he traveled into work every day was the peanut boy on that will and no one knew so you know just looking for those sorts of gaps between what's being said for like you know and then the different narratives that are occurring and how they're playing out because they often will show you know what are the rules in use and how hard it is sometimes in the factory owners work that sort of challenge it's a nest of newness when things are introduced and there is this you know historical legacy there that it's it's battling um videos you know there's just a variety and I think that's where it's knock Rafi allows you to really step into a world and also obviously the reflections or the reflexivity of them researcher themselves I mean that often draws out some really important findings in terms of how you know you're positioned in the research and the different power dynamics within the research as well so yeah in terms of it's really super important and that talked about twinning and then the debriefing so we always had a debrief Canadian someone on site saying a couple of times NAPLAN sort of up in a regional area and she'd still ring through a week and she would just tell me what happened and we would record it on our phone and then we got to transcribe and then we've coated that and then we know hold it because he still saw that as data for us and actually it was really because when we started we weren't sure what we're going to find and then we kept seeing these recurring patterns and then again I've had that conversation and again and so then we had the data and recording of it so find a sounding board or journal yourself and then that in that space is there this beautiful vignettes of her reflecting on what she was seeing like one I really distinctly remember is where people sat in a room and we've got the windows it's got to sit at the table you're gonna sit at the table but the other thing from you as a research perspective if you're I'm assuming you were yes oh I mean I came as an insider so I remember my first conversation with Louise I mean I was dressed like those women when we went to that I feel it so you know have that interaction means you know having it and other researchers to vApps things often and to also if you can do it with others it's it's very rich because you're coming at it also from different places whilst drawing on the structure of the conceptual framework you don't have another you paired up with research find someone to be your sounding board that to ask you questions back about it so you've got it over time just something to observations my name's to the PhD a Class B you're here it needs to see there were two things that I observed when everybody was talking if one young woman starting out and the point she made in relation to and does she does shut up into who work and and get her professorship and then she can be whatever she wants to be in say it have some influence which is something I think that everybody gravel to it and but then their ethics kind of say to them no I wanted to destroy as well and then the other thing and that I thought was was when you were showing the slate in relationship the man under construction with their panic attacks and with their family worries and all that the similarities between men and women leaders and week two are going into work with are panic attacks and or stress and are straining so if there's some way that we can marry and let me know that we're all in this together and that are just our discussions around our needs are going to support their discussions as well if that may be done happening but after observation I guess that's the bigger endeavor reading isn't it it is I think what's happening about our research that's now I've given 30 discussion top top 30 talks to industry one International Women's Day but nine not nine and that day and most of the room now are men a lot of the rumors men because we're talking about men in our research so they're paying attention to what we are saying which is really interesting so you've got to hold those things but it's probably intentional you don't want it you don't want it got to become research about men yes only it is about that it's about gender dynamics and that's what you've gotta keep reinforcing and bringing them along and getting them to listen because that I mean though when we first started reporting back to our companies they were shocked absolutely shocked like when they've got the figures in front of them it's happening and also making it to gender the fact that very gender affects all that you know your adapters as well I think it's also you know highlighting masculinities and how you know to the point you made before that there is great advantage of powerfulness in the performance of hegemony masculinity but there is also a side effect for a lot of men who aren't enjoying that position at the top which is in our case in construction which was the stress and this double national suicide rate and those types of components it's a sort of pilot oriented mentality I think on that notion and we'll finish up at

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